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RE: Fortification Levels
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:36 am
by HansBolter
ORIGINAL: Blackhorse
ORIGINAL: HansBolter
While I can't tell where in the sequence the fort reduction occurs, it is ahead of the odds in the combat reports. Which, to me, seems completely bass ackwards.
The combat odds should have a direct impact in determining the chances for success of the engineering effort. If the odds are so abysmal that the firepower of the troops in the fort is soo overwhelming that the engineers cannot even get near the fortifications to place the charges then thier chances of success would be greatly reduced.
Allowing the engineers to reduce the fort before the odds are calculated looks a lot like a free pass for the engineers.
It is less bass ackwards than you might think. The odds are calculated *after* all of the combat (artillery bombardment, then devices firing at each other) occurs. The odds only determine if the defender retreats. The combat engineers are in the front line and have to survive all the shooting. If, when the dust settles, you still have enough combat engineers alive and undisrupted, you have a chance to reduce the forts, even if your final odds are (substantially) less than 1:1. Obviously, if your finals odds were, say, 4:1, there is a much better chance, all things being equal, that enough of your engineers survived to take the fort down a level.
Thank you. That's exactly the kind of explanation I was hoping for.
I do still wonder if the AI makes a 1-99 odds attack for the sole purpose of a chance at reducing the fort. If I attacked at 1-99 odds and succeeded in reducing a fort against a PBEM opponent as the AI has done to me I would venture to guess that I might be labeled as having played in a "gamey" manner. Do you know what "substantially" is actually quantified to be? Can you tell us at what level of abysmal odds the chance for fort reduction drops off to 0?
RE: Fortification Levels
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:49 am
by Yakface
If you are attacking at odds of 1-99 the chance of dropping a fort will be aweful as your engineers will almost certainly have been wiped out before they get a chance to do their thing.
This is not a consequence of the odds ratio (as calculated during the OCD phase [;)]), but rather the odds ratio and low chance of dropping a fort are symptoms of the same thing - the bad ratio of your men : enemy bullets.
RE: Fortification Levels
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:05 am
by HansBolter
ORIGINAL: Yakface
If you are attacking at odds of 1-99 the chance of dropping a fort will be aweful as your engineers will almost certainly have been wiped out before they get a chance to do their thing.
This is not a consequence of the odds ratio (as calculated during the OCD phase [;)]), but rather the odds ratio and low chance of dropping a fort are symptoms of the same thing - the bad ratio of your men : enemy bullets.
Understood. Perhaps the reason for my obsessiveness with this is that I actually experienced the one in a zillion iteration where a 1-99 odds attack (actually not sure how the code arrived at 1-99 odds when the final adjusted "assault" (read firepower) value of the attacker was 0) made against Singapore resulted in the reduction of the fort. If, at the end of the fire phase the the attacker had 0 firepower left where did these unkilled, undisabled engineers who succeeded in reducing the fort come from?
RE: Fortification Levels
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:57 pm
by witpqs
ORIGINAL: HansBolter
Understood. Perhaps the reason for my obsessiveness with this is that I actually experienced the one in a zillion iteration where a 1-99 odds attack (actually not sure how the code arrived at 1-99 odds when the final adjusted "assault" (read firepower) value of the attacker was 0) made against Singapore resulted in the reduction of the fort. If, at the end of the fire phase the the attacker had 0 firepower left where did these unkilled, undisabled engineers who succeeded in reducing the fort come from?
Sounds like a successful suicide mission.
RE: Fortification Levels
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:10 am
by loricas
ORIGINAL: HansBolter
ORIGINAL: Yakface
If you are attacking at odds of 1-99 the chance of dropping a fort will be aweful as your engineers will almost certainly have been wiped out before they get a chance to do their thing.
This is not a consequence of the odds ratio (as calculated during the OCD phase [;)]), but rather the odds ratio and low chance of dropping a fort are symptoms of the same thing - the bad ratio of your men : enemy bullets.
Understood. Perhaps the reason for my obsessiveness with this is that I actually experienced the one in a zillion iteration where a 1-99 odds attack (actually not sure how the code arrived at 1-99 odds when the final adjusted "assault" (read firepower) value of the attacker was 0) made against Singapore resulted in the reduction of the fort. If, at the end of the fire phase the the attacker had 0 firepower left where did these unkilled, undisabled engineers who succeeded in reducing the fort come from?
there is two eng vs fort roll: one before and one after combat: the roll before is not related to odd but only to number of combat eng squad. and also i think that here there trouble is that fort level is in fact entrench level. so massive operation by eng before attach my lead to so many destruction on defensive work to force defender to retreat to second defensive line, represented in game by fort level reduction
RE: Fortification Levels
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:33 am
by loricas
i'm making a test on fort construction time:
base for test Naha (okinawa 95,66) no work on airport or port
day 1 53 eng fort from level 0 to 1
day 2 53 eng fort level 1 + 43%
day 5 53 eng fort level 2 attained
day 6 53 eng fort level 2 + 12%
day 8 106 eng fort 2+39%
day 10 106 eng fort 2+63%
day 14 106 eng fort 3 attained + 2%
day 16 106 eng fort 3+6%
so: around 50 eng point lev 1. 150 level 2. 1000 level 3.5000level 4
progress in later post