Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Arctic Blast

ORIGINAL: Slick Wilhelm

How does Steam work? According to their website, after you pay for a game you may then download and then play it. Do you have to connect up to the Steam server and authenticate your license before you play it each time, like Rise of Flight? 

Actually...yeah, I suppose it does work pretty similarly to Rise of Flight.

You buy your game. Then you get it downloading and installing (Steam does that). After that, whenever you run that game, it has to run through Steam.

There are exceptions to the rule with some games that don't have to, but which ones seem to be a confusing mess with nobody really knowing for certain.

Well, IIRC all games need to run through Steam, and the exceptions are some games that are allowed to run in offline mode (but which games is not clear), yet Steam is always required. Under this link you'll find a review of Steam as a service: http://bansama.com/b/digital-distributi ... -of-steam/

Note that this review was written by a person living outside US, so Americans will probably not notice the regional restrictions he's complaining about, but other than that everything holds for all users around the world.

ORIGINAL: dogancan

and remember, with steam, you can install your can to infinite number of machines as they are licenced to your account and not to a single computer.

Can you really install the same game on multiple machines at the same moment?

ORIGINAL: wilecki
I even almost went for buying HoI3 when it was 75% off, but I've regained sanity just in time not to do it. I've read few examples of how difficult it is to mod Steam versions of certain games, and I'd rather buy it full price from GG, when they finally make it playable of course. I use Steam only for Valve games, Indie games and some old games and it works for me so far.

I think its just a false rumour that steam games cant be modded. I have had no problems modding them so far.

ORIGINAL: wilecki

ORIGINAL: dogancan

and remember, with steam, you can install your can to infinite number of machines as they are licenced to your account and not to a single computer.

Can you really install the same game on multiple machines at the same moment?

yes, and it is totally legal. you just cannot login from two machines at the same time. I currently have "football manager 10" in both my desktop and notebook.

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

ORIGINAL: wilecki
I even almost went for buying HoI3 when it was 75% off, but I've regained sanity just in time not to do it. I've read few examples of how difficult it is to mod Steam versions of certain games, and I'd rather buy it full price from GG, when they finally make it playable of course. I use Steam only for Valve games, Indie games and some old games and it works for me so far.

I think its just a false rumour that steam games cant be modded. I have had no problems modding them so far.

I sure hope it's a false rumour.. As I've written above I've only read about it, not tested it myself. I will try to do so in near future, maybe could start with trying out some Half-life based games I own, but then again each game is a different story.

By the way, have you ever tried modding any Paradox game with steam? I am very curious about that.

Also, one of the concerns I've read about was that Steam is automatically updating games, so you always download the most up-to-date version. Although it's a generally good thing, it sometimes can make modding or using 3rd party patches impossible, as they often tend to lose compatibility with newer versions of base game. Do you have any experience with situation like this?

ORIGINAL: dogancan

ORIGINAL: wilecki

ORIGINAL: dogancan

and remember, with steam, you can install your can to infinite number of machines as they are licenced to your account and not to a single computer.

Can you really install the same game on multiple machines at the same moment?

yes, and it is totally legal. you just cannot login from two machines at the same time. I currently have "football manager 10" in both my desktop and notebook.

Good news, thanks!

and a note, I bought hoi2 from steam and installed the TRP mod with no problem.

my only concern about steam is that, in most cases, it is not the cheapest option for purchase.

ORIGINAL: dogancan

and a note, I bought hoi2 from steam and installed the TRP mod with no problem.

my only concern about steam is that, in most cases, it is not the cheapest option for purchase.

I hope their pricing strategy is gonna change. For us Europeans the most annoying is their 1$=1€ policy. And although Steam owns 70% of the market (Stardock's estimates from last year), I hope that they've finally felt the aggressive competition behind their backs. Last year was full of crazy sales at Gamersgate, D2D, Impulse or Good Old Games, but I think that in the end Steam managed to bring the craziest.

And thanks for the confirmation that modding hoi2 is possible.

Cheers!

ORIGINAL: wilecki
Also, one of the concerns I've read about was that Steam is automatically updating games, so you always download the most up-to-date version. Although it's a generally good thing, it sometimes can make modding or using 3rd party patches impossible, as they often tend to lose compatibility with newer versions of base game. Do you have any experience with situation like this?

I had that problem once with impulse/sins of solar empire. But you can get around that by waiting for new versions of the mods or taking backups and refusing updates for games that are modded. You shouldnt update those games that are modded anyways.

As for paradox games steam's HoI3 works perfectly with mods atleast according to the forums.

Steam is not that bad.Yes, you need to be online to activate the game, though I don't see the problem with this especially if you get the game from the steam store you are going to be online anyway.[8|]

Also, you don't have to be online to play them, just run steam in offline mode.Haven't had any problems playing steam games where there is no internet.

NefariousKoel, I couldn't give a damn of your opinion of me.

Agreed, lot of games are a bit overpriced, especially Empire:Total War, with it costing $40 now at retail stores but it's still $50 on steam.

However, I only have steam for my Valve games.Anything else that I can get in stores I get, not steam.

I hate Steam, and won't use it. If that means i don't get to play games I really want (Empire:Total War), then so be it.
And while I wish other gamers wouldn't use Steam, I respect their right to do so; I reserve my anger for companies that make use of Steam - CA and SEGA suck!

ORIGINAL: wilecki

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

ORIGINAL: wilecki
I even almost went for buying HoI3 when it was 75% off, but I've regained sanity just in time not to do it. I've read few examples of how difficult it is to mod Steam versions of certain games, and I'd rather buy it full price from GG, when they finally make it playable of course. I use Steam only for Valve games, Indie games and some old games and it works for me so far.

I think its just a false rumour that steam games cant be modded. I have had no problems modding them so far.

I sure hope it's a false rumour.. As I've written above I've only read about it, not tested it myself. I will try to do so in near future, maybe could start with trying out some Half-life based games I own, but then again each game is a different story.

By the way, have you ever tried modding any Paradox game with steam? I am very curious about that.

Also, one of the concerns I've read about was that Steam is automatically updating games, so you always download the most up-to-date version. Although it's a generally good thing, it sometimes can make modding or using 3rd party patches impossible, as they often tend to lose compatibility with newer versions of base game. Do you have any experience with situation like this?

One issue re modding is, as you say, the version Steam sometimes has. Patches are sometimes long delayed for Steam versions of games, so that the latest versions of mods cannot run on the Steam version, until the Steam patches catch up.

I know this was an issue for a friend with Silent Hunter III - but shortly thereafter Steam issued the last patch and all was OK.

It is one reason I did not buy SH IV in the sale, as it appeared to be one patch behind.

Steam version of Iron Warriors was also an odd one with some features left out - which meant you could not fully tweak the configuration in game. Took me a while to figure out how to fix that. Still, the game only cost €2.49 so I was not too cross.

So long as they are up to date on their patches, seems fine.

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

Steam is not that bad.Yes, you need to be online to activate the game, though I don't see the problem with this especially if you get the game from the steam store you are going to be online anyway.[8|]

When Half-Life 2 was released, a close friend (who's got a M.Sc. IT degree) of my buddy analyzed the packets the Steam software would send to Steam's master server and was pretty surprised (if not shocked): The Steam software had gathered a full list of the mp3 files stored on his computer, and relayed this info to Steam, obviously.

While Steam/Valve/Vivendi probably may not use or process the collected data, it's still pretty impertinent to collect (and relay) personal user data - without the user's consent, and without letting the user know what's going on in the background. The copy protection scheme "StarForce" has similar capabilities, means Starforce can be ordered with additional modules which can be used to spy on users.

While I rather doubt that let's say infos about illegal music files will make it to legal authorities via Steam, the collected data (amount, length and type of legal music files, for example) can still be sold (and will be sold, most likely). Additionally, infos like types of hardware, installed services, music genres (found in the mp3 collection), names and titles of games and applications used on a particular computer, etc., will be valuable for advertizers, hard- and software companies, and maybe even the music industry.
While Steam is Valve's "baby", I could imagine that Vivendi (with their music and Multimedia/games branches) would find these informations quite useful and pay for the info.

I'm not sure whether that guy posted his findings anywhere, I can't remember any big fuss around Steam regarding spying on users, at least, and I don't know whether they're still doing it or not. Whatsoever, I don't like that approach, so I avoid Steam.

Another downside is that you can't activate your game if the Steam server is down (eg. in December 2006,) and - during a server outage - you can't play those games that still need to contact the authentification server for single player action.

ORIGINAL: ckammp

I hate Steam, and won't use it. If that means i don't get to play games I really want (Empire:Total War), then so be it.
And while I wish other gamers wouldn't use Steam, I respect their right to do so; I reserve my anger for companies that make use of Steam - CA and SEGA suck!

+1

I've moaned about steam and similar online activation frustrations in the past and am completely free of such nonsense, thankfully.

There's no good reason other than to benefit Valve/Battlefront/Bioware/etc., for forcing customers to activate online. It doesn't stop piracy, so their argument on that score is wasted breath. For example, I don't connect my mp3 player to Creative or Sony every time I want to listen to some music. I don't have to ask permission from Philips every time I want to watch a DVD on my player. So, I don't see why I should have to prove I'm not a thief every time I want to run a game on my PC.

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy

When Half-Life 2 was released, a close friend (who's got a M.Sc. IT degree) of my buddy analyzed the packets the Steam software would send to Steam's master server and was pretty surprised (if not shocked): The Steam software had gathered a full list of the mp3 files stored on his computer, and relayed this info to Steam, obviously.

I'm not sure whether that guy posted his findings anywhere, I can't remember any big fuss around Steam regarding spying on users, at least, and I don't know whether they're still doing it or not. Whatsoever, I don't like that approach, so I avoid Steam.

There were lots of bad rumours about steam during its release but I dont know if those are true and even if they are they still or has steam changed/fixed things? I avoided steam for many years (steaming pile of **** they called it) before I started to use it due to all the bad stuff I have heard. But so far I have never had any problems steam and I have been using it for many years.

Currently I would say steam is my favorite game provider. Its simply the easiest way to buy, install, play and update games. Of course the cheapness is important too. My main reason against steam was the high prices but now that I can buy i.e GTA4 for 7,5e, Stalker 2€, Bioshock 4,99€ or killing floor 4,49€ that is not a problem anymore.

Another downside is that you can't activate your game if the Steam server is down (eg. in December 2006,) and - during a server outage - you can't play those games that still need to contact the authentification server for single player action.

You can play steam games offline so I dont see how thats a problem? As for activation and installion I just take it granted that I need internet connection to do that for digital games.

Also if som games need constant online autenthication that problem is related to the game itself not steam. So far there has been one steam game out of many that I didnt buy because of extra DRM (Riddick). Granted I had problems with the physical version of the game too so I wasnt too anxious to test it.

As for server outages I didnt even remember it before you mentioned it. I faintly remember atleast one case where the servers were out when I was trying to log into steam but thats about it and it didnt take long for them to come back.

The other arguments I have against online activation/updates etc. is reliance on the supplier a) still being there next year and b) still supporting the game even a few years down the line when they don't want to provide resources, but I still want to play it. E.g. I, and many others, still play the very active and healthy Panzer General II. If Valve go down, what percentage of your games will stop working? That really puts me off. Eggs and baskets.

Valve owns majority of digital distribution so I dont thinks its going down anytime soon. But if it does go down Im sure somone would buy it and continue the service. Also incase of final meltdown I believe they would release a patch that would enable people to install their games from backups without online activation.

But if they do go down and are so mean that they wont release the patch I wont worry too much because I payed only few euros for the games. Allthough even in that case there will propably be som unofficial "patch" made by the steam community itself to save their games.

ORIGINAL: Zakhal
Valve owns majority of digital distribution so I dont thinks its going down anytime soon. But if it does go down Im sure somone would buy it and continue the service. Also incase of final meltdown I believe they would release a patch that would enable people to install their games from backups without online activation.

In the current climate, I wouldn't say any company is even remotely safe. There have been quite a few surprise retail failures here over the past few months and some of those very big names looked sure to find buyers, right up to the last minute when they failed. I know that's very pessimistic, but it's sadly the reality too. As Valve control and maintain the distribution and patching of the software, it bothers me that we are effectively at their mercy.

ORIGINAL: Zakhal
But if they do go down and are so mean that they wont release the patch I wont worry too much because I payed only few euros for the games. Allthough even in that case there will propably be som unofficial "patch" made by the steam community itself to save their games.

That continuation is almost a certainty. As in the case of PGII I mentioned, the only reason it still works so well now is due to the community support.

I'd still like to know what the T&C's say about Valve's support for software though. It would be interesting to see what contingency they have in place for when they decided to drop support for a title or in the event of their losing control of their business for whatever reason. The point being, I'm happy for online updates and distribution, it's a great model. What I object to is not having a standalone product and self contained patches that I can keep control of myself. If I pay for it, I expect to retain ownership of the software and license for my own use on my own terms. Valve force people to relinquish that control and I won't buy from them for that reason and others.

I purchased 9 games during the sale and the total was under $100
Crysis and Crysis Warhead for under $18 was too good to pass up.

I have no problem at all with Steam and I have always found it to be a fantastic way of purchasing games. There is almost no downtime with the service and I download games at 700 Kbps. In this day of internet service being 'always on' I never have problems with having to be connected to play games. There are also several games that do not require the service to be connected or even running in order to play.

I have never had problems modding or patching games either. I think many of the problems people report with modding and patching games is that Steam has an odd file path where it stores files and you have to look deep inside your C drive and then dig pretty deep into your Steam folder in order to find the game files.

I sincerly hope that Matrix would look into using Steam as a retail channel. I would not want it to take over as the primary or only way of game distribution. But as an alternate secondary source of game distribution it would only serve to increase Matrix game sales.

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I purchased 9 games during the sale and the total was under $100
Crysis and Crysis Warhead for under $18 was too good to pass up.

I have no problem at all with Steam and I have always found it to be a fantastic way of purchasing games. There is almost no downtime with the service and I download games at 700 Kbps. In this day of internet service being 'always on' I never have problems with having to be connected to play games. There are also several games that do not require the service to be connected or even running in order to play.

I have never had problems modding or patching games either. I think many of the problems people report with modding and patching games is that Steam has an odd file path where it stores files and you have to look deep inside your C drive and then dig pretty deep into your Steam folder in order to find the game files.

I sincerly hope that Matrix would look into using Steam as a retail channel. I would not want it to take over as the primary or only way of game distribution. But as an alternate secondary source of game distribution it would only serve to increase Matrix game sales.

Oh God, I hope they never go the steam way...I truly believe that would kill Matrix games.No one would even attempt to buy from this site at full price. Everyone would wait for the inevitable sale on steam. And I dont think there would be a major upsurge in sales there. We are a niche market. Look what games are "happening" there..RTS and FPS rule for the most part.