RE: Stellar evolution? Future possibility?
Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:11 pm
....obviously.
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Stellar evolution? Future possibility?
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RE: Stellar evolution? Future possibility?
Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:24 pm
Yeah, some times I like to state the obvious. Heh.
RE: Stellar evolution? Future possibility?
Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:40 am
I hereby declare thee Captain Obvious!ORIGINAL: Wade1000
Yeah, some times I like to state the obvious. Heh.
Anyway, I re-read your post about abstractions, and whilst I agree with some of it, I do not find the populations in space 4X games to be abstractions generally, IMO they do quite a good job at making proper estimates on how much population a planet could support before overcrowding and resource logistics become a serious problem!
I prefer to not view it as abstractions in DW but more like that it plays out in an alternate universe with a far less star-populated Milky Way, rather than abstractions. Partly because when I think off everything as abstractions it sorta pulls me out of the game and makes me feel less immersed, but that's just how I work as a person! Besides so far DW seems a lot more connected to 'reality' than most other commercial 4X games IMO, it's real-time, it has proper orbits of celestial bodies etc, no carrier combat(if I recall correctly)!
Damnit, I can't wait for DW, just 8 days to go. Someone put me in a cryotube and wake me up when it's out!
RE: Stellar evolution? Future possibility?
Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:21 am
That statement is totally not related to the point I was making.Anyway, I re-read your post about abstractions, and whilst I agree with some of it, I do not find the populations in space 4X games to be abstractions generally, IMO they do quite a good job at making proper estimates on how much population a planet could support before overcrowding and resource logistics become a serious problem!
Game abstractions to me:
One population unit does not equal just one person.
To me, one star unit does not equal just one star.
To me, one structure unit on a planet does not equal just one structure on the entire planet. The unit would more like represent various structures spread across the various areas of the surface.
In other 4Ex games, like Civilization 4, one soldier unit or tank unit does not equal one soldier or tank. Instead those units would equal like 1000 soldiers and 100 tanks.
Those are just my way of thinking of these sorts of games.
RE: Stellar evolution? Future possibility?
Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:27 am
Well most 4X space games I've played makes it clear what number they count in, like Space Empires series makes it clear that "100" in population means "100 million", not just "100"ORIGINAL: Wade1000
One population unit does not equal just one person.
They do not leave the population numbers to the imagination generally, but usually makes it clear what number the population is counted in, i.e. numbers of thousands, millions, billions.
Anyway, I fully understand what you're saying though I personally would say the Civ series have a far bigger emphasis on abstraction than DW appears to have.
RE: Stellar evolution? Future possibility?
Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:35 pm
ORIGINAL: Gargantou
That's the way it should be.There's currently no dramatic changes in the galaxy itself during the game - at least, not naturally caused changes...
This 'stellar evolution' stuff should be up to the player whether he wants them in the game or not. Personally I do not since it's quite unrealistic, given the timeframe one has to think in when one looks at the evolution of stars and so forth.
Personally I'm a bigger fan of 'hard'-style science fiction rather than science fantasy where space is filled with magic anomalies everywhere you go and so forth.
And I know, I know, FTL travel is very much fantasy but it's a sacrifice that I understand because it's necessary to keep the game somewhat decently paced. The ideas of ultra-rapid 'stellar evolution' however, is not.
But, as I said before, I'm fine with it being added to the game as long as it's completely optional, I don't want to be forced to deal with a sci-fantasy universe where stars can go supernova like the ones we get in some other games.
And just to throw some scientific numbers into my rant, a supernovae occurs only approx. once every 50 years, in the entire Milky Way galaxy.
That should give everyone a fair idea of how how extremely low the chances would be to run into a supernova.
So if someone makes a supernova mod, please make an option in it to have it on a realistic scale, i.e. only one starsystem once every 50 ingame years!
P.S. I know I'm crazy, no need to point that out.
I agree with you. Unless the game lasts billions of turns, then the chances of something cataclysmic happening are pretty low. Take a look at our own galaxy, while it is constantly growing, the growth rate is minuscule...change takes much time to be accomplished.
RE: Stellar evolution? Future possibility?
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:55 am
ORIGINAL: Wade1000
Consider, also, that a galaxy consists of billions of stars. In games like this portraying a galaxy each star system represented is likely abstracted to represent an average ,or the best, of millions of stars in it's vicinity. Thus, that supervova that happens every 50 years in real life would be FAR less likely in game...almost to the point of not needing to include supervovas in game or to have it super extremley rare.And just to throw some scientific numbers into my rant, a supernovae occurs only approx. once every 50 years, in the entire Milky Way galaxy.
That should give everyone a fair idea of how how extremely low the chances would be to run into a supernova.
So if someone makes a supernova mod, please make an option in it to have it on a realistic scale, i.e. only one starsystem once every 50 ingame years!
P.S. I know I'm crazy, no need to point that out.
I would except supernovas as super extremely rare in game. I won't try to come up with a ratio number chance for them happening in game.
Gargantou, you are not seeming crazy.
RE: Stellar evolution? Future possibility?
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:45 am
I liked cataclysmic events in MOO2 and SE4. While the first has not so many stellar events (just a supernova, time anomaly and warp flux) all these events were funny to deal with: develop a star rejuvenator or be suspended for unpredictable period of time building additional firepower to unleash it as soon as flux is gone.
In SE4 it was possible to adjust the strength of events. I always played on cataclysmic level as it introduced supernovas, core instability and other nasty things that cannot be controlled. All you could do is just to evacuate citizens. It provided SE4 an additional juice as you had to fight not only your opponents, but also a universe itself.
I sometimes return to MOO2 as i miss its monsters (especially amoebas) and to SE4 as its extremely devastating events are unmatched by any other 4x game. BTW, when i first saw a monster in DW i was almost happy - space dwelling creatures are a rarety in modern space games )
In SE4 it was possible to adjust the strength of events. I always played on cataclysmic level as it introduced supernovas, core instability and other nasty things that cannot be controlled. All you could do is just to evacuate citizens. It provided SE4 an additional juice as you had to fight not only your opponents, but also a universe itself.
I sometimes return to MOO2 as i miss its monsters (especially amoebas) and to SE4 as its extremely devastating events are unmatched by any other 4x game. BTW, when i first saw a monster in DW i was almost happy - space dwelling creatures are a rarety in modern space games )