Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Brady is right, the changes in AE have made Atolls easier to assualt overall. The stacking rules favor the attacker. The Marshalls become extra-vulnerable for the Empire.

On the flip-side though, those same rules make the bases less useful; with stacking rules, much harder to develop it into a major base or bomber platform.

The other break on Allied rampage is that I would highly recommend you DONT land on atoll unless you are 100% prepped!

I echo your last. My 2nd Marine Division has never recovered from Tarawa.

Re the Gilberts/Marshalls, at first I was interested in "greening up" the entire eastern map. I took Canton and Baker back, took Tarawa on the second try, took Makin, and was prepared to march north and clean house, until I ran into the buzzsaw at Wotje (described in another thread.) I made a half-hearted stab at Jaluit and found a CD nest there too, which made me ask myself why I was bothering? I grabbed Kwajalein and stopped. LBA-bombed every red island out of planes and supplies, and forgot about them. The AI tried to re-suppply Roi-Namur twice before it stopped. (Got those with PTs from Kwaj.) For nearly a year now those bases have sat there full of garrison troops slowly starving. My ships wave as they cruise by headed for Eniwetok (which is worth having for a variety of reasons.)

Some good lessons for my second game.

Look at the bright side- at least you took Tarawa. I invaded Tarawa with 1 marine regiment and 1 eng regiment. My opponent had 9000 troops. The initial shock attack wiped out the Marine regiment and the next turn I began the long process of re-embarking the invasion force.

Thank god he didn't counter attack.

He still holds Tarawa...he mentioned he could have easily garrisoned it with more troops, but keeping the place resupplied was a pain in the butt...

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf

Look at the bright side- at least you took Tarawa. I invaded Tarawa with 1 marine regiment and 1 eng regiment. My opponent had 9000 troops. The initial shock attack wiped out the Marine regiment and the next turn I began the long process of re-embarking the invasion force.

Thank god he didn't counter attack.

He still holds Tarawa...he mentioned he could have easily garrisoned it with more troops, but keeping the place resupplied was a pain in the butt...

My first try at Tarawa I did about what you describe (with a division instead of a regiment), plus was only about 50% prepped (maybe low-40s; it's been awhile now.) I got thrown off. It was my first real amphib op of the game, and I found out I wasn't in WITP anymore.

My second, successful try ended with me having something like 47,000 total troops on the island. It wasn't possible to unload supplies fast enough to get past zero. Getting them off and back to PH took a long time, and Tarawa was essentially worthless and vulnerable that whole time. The AI doesn't pounce, but a human might, unless you tie up your carriers there, replenishing them the whole time.

I'm not sure I understand Brady's complaint. It seems that the design pretty effectively prevents defending an atoll with a division and allows attack with one with full preparation, at least after you have APA's and AKA's, which corresponds to RL. I'm not sure why an Allied player would want to commit much more than a division with some tanks to a landing, and thereby tying up the extra forces for four months. Is there really a good reason to attack with 3 divisions, and does such an attack save much in Allied casualties? I haven't tried it.

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf

Look at the bright side- at least you took Tarawa. I invaded Tarawa with 1 marine regiment and 1 eng regiment. My opponent had 9000 troops. The initial shock attack wiped out the Marine regiment and the next turn I began the long process of re-embarking the invasion force.

Thank god he didn't counter attack.

He still holds Tarawa...he mentioned he could have easily garrisoned it with more troops, but keeping the place resupplied was a pain in the butt...

Tarawa is a small island with a limit of 30,000 troops. It shouldn't be that hard to supply 9000.

I sure wished I had did my intel homework better and realized the 30,000 stacking limit. Would have saved me some grief. For some reason it was stuck in my head that it was a very tiny place. In any case my error and I paid the price.

Don't know why my opponent decided that it was a pain to re-supply. Only he really knows. Mabye the fact I've been conducting "pirate" raids on his merchants throughout the war had some influence.

Perhaps Tarawa isn't that important to him in the overall scheme of things.

ORIGINAL: Nomad

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf

Look at the bright side- at least you took Tarawa. I invaded Tarawa with 1 marine regiment and 1 eng regiment. My opponent had 9000 troops. The initial shock attack wiped out the Marine regiment and the next turn I began the long process of re-embarking the invasion force.

Thank god he didn't counter attack.

He still holds Tarawa...he mentioned he could have easily garrisoned it with more troops, but keeping the place resupplied was a pain in the butt...

Tarawa is a small island with a limit of 30,000 troops. It shouldn't be that hard to supply 9000.

Keeping them with some supplies isn't and wasn't a problem - but full operational tempo requires constant attention, and let's face it - the place is out of the way for the Empire. Once we got into '44, I ceased to care so much - and certainly didn't want to commit 30K troops to a base that you'd probably bypass anyway.

I'd rather put them where you're sure to run into them [8D]...

All I was saying is that 9000 troops on Tarawa would not be over stacking so no extra supply was needed to overcome the over stacking. As to any other considerations, that would be game and/or opponent specific.

Yes indeed the war has bypassed Tarawa, but it won't go to waste. The allieds will send an experimential invasion force to test some theories on the best ways to invade the strongholds of the empire.

The recent successes in the Marshalls was more than likely due to fact the Empire has lost interest in them, the allieds will conceed that fact-of course the public will be told a different story. Nevertheless valuable experience was gained.

The goal of the allieds is to invade the Empires Homeland and bring the war to an end without using atomic weapons.

A lofty goal, but one that the allieds believe can be achived.

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf

I sure wished I had did my intel homework better and realized the 30,000 stacking limit. Would have saved me some grief. For some reason it was stuck in my head that it was a very tiny place. In any case my error and I paid the price.

Could be because the rules state that atolls written on the map in yellow are very small (6,000 capacity) . . . and Tarawa is written in yellow. Been there, done that.

Earlier I posted a problem re Amphibious TF automatically loading supplies.  This becomes very important when to try andtake of troops from an atol after a successful invasion.  You will strip all the supply out as well as the troops unless you switch to transport TF.