Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: wdolson

That sound you hear is the bottom of the barrel being scraped.

Bill

I think they already went through the bottom of the barrel and are bringing up the muck from underneath it. [X(]

I always wondered what EXP: 22 looked like.

ORIGINAL: bklooste

Guy on the left has a german helmet probably stolen from the  KT..

I think he may be wearing the helmet he was given when he was with the KMT. I still think the guys in the lighter uniforms are Chinese. Soldiers of the puppet Nanjing Government/Wang Jingwei regime. They might be former POWs captured during the Battle of Shanghai because – apart from the Jap helmets - they are equipped like the German trained divisions that were decimated in that battle. I suspect that the guys in darker uniforms are Japanese. Seconded to the puppet forces to make sure they don’t run away. The slightest sign of disloyalty was punishable by death.

German trained/reorganized divisional troops in the National Revolutionary Army trained by Hans von Seeckt? 8 total divisions were equipped with all or some german gear, the 3rd, 6th, 9th, 14th, 36th, 87th, 88th and the Training Division

There were also another 12 divisions traind by the Germans before 1937, but they had no German equipment, these guys have some of the equipment, so they are probably one of the first 8 divisions he trained.

Jim

The officer got thet look. ' Why me. How did I get these clowns.'

The Zero is thinking, "Ok, this must be my own personal IJA Black Sheep!".

If they were teh german units these were the Nationalist chinese ELITE before...tahts why i thought the approproated teh gear...

Ralphie: I want an official Red Ryder, carbine action, two-hundred shot range model air rifle!
Mrs. Parker: No, you'll shoot your eye out.

MP-18*, it is[:)]

RGC (colaborators/pupet goverment) Troops**, it is[:)]


.......

*As to weather or not they were made in China or Imported I am not shure.

** The RGC troops had quiet a mixed kit, and as noted above some to many were defectors from the KMT , many of the picks I have of them you can see them fielding KMT weapons.

Question is to which side were they MORE dangerous???

MP-18s were made in Shanxi (Taiyuan) arsenal since early 1920s, widely distributed to Chinese warlord armies

From their insignia they were not KMT troops, and some of them wore Japanese hemlets
Wang Chingwei's troops dressed like exactly as the KMT troops, so they might not be the puppet troops from Nanjing.

I suspect they were from the smaller puppet armies from North China. Could be Manchukuo (the office looks like Japanese to me, and the sorry looking troopers look like Chinese).

Brady, can you tell us where did you find the pic? Really interested in those puppet armies

ORIGINAL: ncdawg

I hope that guy up front has his safety on ... or he will shoot his eye out !

I was thinking the same thing.

ORIGINAL: c_m_kwong

From their insignia they were not KMT troops, and some of them wore Japanese hemlets
Wang Chingwei's troops dressed like exactly as the KMT troops, so they might not be the puppet troops from Nanjing.

I suspect they were from the smaller puppet armies from North China. Could be Manchukuo (the office looks like Japanese to me, and the sorry looking troopers look like Chinese).

I must admit that I was baffled by the collar insignia. It does not quite look like the KMT insignia often used by Wang Chingwei's troops or Japanese insignia. I don’t think it looks like the insignia used by Manchukuon or Mongol puppet troops either. The strange thing about it is the diagonal band across it.

The location of the photo would determine the army that they were with. I suspect that they were with the so-called RGC Army in Central China.

Me too, I have never seen insignia like that before.[&:]
And you are right, they dont look like Manchuko or Mongolian troops either...

Tried to search for more info, but couldnt find any similar pic

I suspect (only with 40% certainty) they were from the North China Security Force under Qi Xieyuan...because MP18 was a lot more common among northern warlord troops than the KMT forces. The German helmet could be explained, because there were some fighting between the central government's troops and the Japs in 1938 in North China.

Original Picture Caption read:

Shanghai 1941--Japanese officered Chinese puppet troops

ebay-

[:D] Mystery solved! Thanks!

And that guy was really a Japs!

A ‘Nanjing Government’ army re-enactor with an M-18.



Much more presentable than the real thing.