Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Just like Allied ship withdrawals, there should be very heavy PP cost for not building certain ships. Yamato and her sister ship were issued of naval and national pride. Any officer or politician who advocated this course most likely would have been sword gutted by some right wing fanatic. Too easy for the Japanese player to cancel major ships IMHO.

Good comment and I concur with the thinking.

ORIGINAL: findmeifyoucan

How to you cancell the RO Sub boats? System will not let me only "Normal" and "Accelerated" I am allowed to click on

Usually that means they haven't fallen into the building phase yet of the que. Keep track as you approach them and once they do start building, cancel or stop them and you are good.

What of the usual argument in old WITP that even if you do accelerate the late CV's you'll just be facing a huge essex fleet that you can't win against?

From firsthand experience, Yamatos trump most Allied battleships by quite a fair margin.

BUild the Yamato & the Musashi, but 4get about the Shinano - too big and doesn't really carry enough planes. Both the BB's can wreak havoc though amongst the pacific until the US gets a lot of air power moving.
Re replentishing them, just have a few AKE's following along in their wake - ie a good well protected support group to back them up. The Japanese player can get a lot of AKE's by converting several mercantile transports early on in the game

Sounds good to me, so I will continue with the BB's production and already have lot's of AKE's conversions in the works!

ake, do they work before 44?

ORIGINAL: freeboy

I think the one I sunk got slowed down by some torps and the nswarmed by air, not sure though

Yep, I think they are OK, but nothing magical. In our game they have been very limited and level bombers can put a hurting on them.

Of course they do. I have been using them since Dec 7, 1941. LOL. They of course need to be loaded with supply and disbanded in port but they work just fine!!

Dunno but its pretty OT if you ask me.

Wasn't it only the Iowa class American Battleships that was on par with the Yamoto Class Japanese Battleships?

If Shinano could be built as a BB and released on her original date, I might almost think about building her as well.  As a CV, that ship is a total waste of space and points.
 

Agreed 100%, the Shinano is far more use in its original BB form than the 'white elephant' super-CV.
Funnily enough I can recall a previous thread on this point, about giving the IJ player the option before the game started to have the Shinano building as its original BB design and then only twanging the 'convert to super-CV' on day 1 of the campaign... Would be a useful extra for the Japanese side...

Yamato and Mushashi each took over 4 years to complete, plus another few months in trials. Shinano was laid down in May 1940, but construction was halted in mid-1941 for a few months to divert resources to ships closer to completion before the start of the war.

As a BB, I wonder when she could have been completed by; probably not much sooner than November 1944, and she really wasn't "complete" when she was sunk anyway.

It would be an interesting option. On the flip side, it would be something like 250,000 Naval points to complete her, that's a huge commitment.

ORIGINAL: findmeifyoucan

Wasn't it only the Iowa class American Battleships that was on par with the Yamoto Class Japanese Battleships?

Well it is hard to call. If you look at the size and the guns, the Yamatos look super but in actuall head to head combat with Modern American BBs guns were not all that mattered. American ships had better fire control, radar and damage control. This might have all served to equal things out.

Most important is the superior Allied radar. Except on the clearest of days, I would expect American radar contolled gunnery to have an advantage over optical spotting and sighting. And really super clear days are rare in any ocean. Sun angle, coulds, heat, rain, humidity, sea state and wind all serve to cut down visability. Look at the trouble the Yamato had hitting DDs and CVEs at Leyte Gulf.

So on a clear day, I would give the edge to the Japanese BBs. At night or in less than perfect weather (maybe 80% of the time), it has to go to the American ships.

The other factor is just luck. 16 inch vs 18 inch does not matter so much. It is who lands the first salvo.

Personally, I think I would give the edge to any fast American BB-especially after 1944.

I could not agree more with Qball and several others about halting Shinano, the RO boats, and accelerating some CVs. It is easy to get Taiho in 2/43 instead of early 44 and Taiho is a nice ship that could be very convenient to have early. However before I accel the Unryus, I accel the Junyos. In my pbem Taiho is scheduled to arrive on 2/13/43, and both Junyos by 4/20/42.

I did not do a huge naval shipyard increase either. I upped it by around 25 points. The big savings came from Shinano and the RO boats. I also halted some of the shorter range I-Boats, turning them back on when I can. The delay on those seem to be no more than 30-40 days. IIRC I also turned off Mushashi for a month. I suppose my respect for what the IJN subs can do is the big factor in this. I think that having the CVs and a few more CVLs arrive earlier is much more important and then later in the war, the subs become more useful to me and they will still arrive in time for that.

In my PBEM I have the Taiho coming in 1/29/43 but didn't think it was worthwhile to spend bucks on the Junyo's as they are already coming in mid summer 42. To each his own I guess. )

In my game I halted the Musashi until the Taiho and the first three Unyrus were built.

With hindsight I wish had halted all the crappy RO subs and accelerated the later Unyrus as well......

As an Allied player, I MUCH rather Japan decide to scrap the BB's and accelerate their CV production. The reason? By the time the Japanese get their carriers, they likely won't do much good in terms of affecting the war.

In AE, surface forces are much more important than stock WiTP. Having the Yamato and Musashi running around can really throw a wrench into Allied plans early in the war, as those BB's can totally wreck havoc - especially at night. The Japanese have a big advantage in night surface combat early in the war - something Japan should take advantage of. The Yamato and Musashi allow the Japanese to lay claim to the night time waters around key combat areas.

I guess what I'm saying is that the Yamato and Musashi provide Japan, early in the war, with many tactical advantages and greater flexibility. To me, these advantages outweigh having a few carriers completed a bit earlier than in real life.

RE: Musashi, I wouldn't even DELAY Musashi. I toyed with the idea of doing that myself, but ultimately, it's an excellent unit, so I would keep building her.

RE: Junyos, I decided AGAINST accelerating for a couple reasons.
First, you have CV superiority without them in early 1942.
Second, accelerating them really strains your resources, at least until Yamato hits the water. I would consider accelerating Hiyo after Yamato is built, in May 1942, depending on the situation.

Having Yamato built is a big point-saver, and allows alot more accelerations

don't 4get some decent asw units, that was one thing that the IJN neglected in ww2 to their eternal cost!