ORIGINAL: daft
ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl
ORIGINAL: daft
What is it you want exactly? Once the reported bugs are ironed out, maybe me, The Plodder and DanO can get something going that is a bit more intuitive than Excel. An application to sort or provide different views of the Estab data wouldn't be too hard to code up if we're three devs working on it. Detail it a bit and hear what Dave has to say and I think we can get something done.
What would be ideal?[&:]
We could
really use a utility that would convert the .xml file into an Excel SS, where the data could be viewed and amended as needed/desired. Once the work was completed, it would be highly desirable if the spreadsheet could then be converted back into .xml format, whereupon, it could be recompiled into an estab file. That's all.[;)]
Gotcha, but why a stop-over in Excel? Why not an application that reads the Estab xml, presents it a bit more intuitively and then saves any changes (along with the unchanged values) into a new xml-file for the user to use? Is there a certain presentation format that is needed that only Excel can handle? Just to clarify, I'm not trying to be a smart ass or question your desire to use Excel in any way, these are genuine questions, so no offence meant in any way. [:D]
ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl
Are you familiar with the scenmaker mod tools that you can download from the CotA website? They are Excel based, Office 2003 to be exact. I don't think that they'll work with anything else. The tools allow you to export an OOB from a scenario to the clipboard, and then paste the data into Excel where the different values can be modified, leadership and fitness, for example. Then the data from the SS can be copied back to the clipboard, and imported into the game. Excel doesn't have to be used, but it sure is easy to use.
And thanks for sharing your ideas; I didn't take offense at all.
Edit: Bolded segment was altered in an attempt to make the process of using the existing mod tools clearer. Thought my initial description was kinda hash.
I've not used the Scenmaker mod tool that PoE mentions but it sounds good.
What gets me about the Estb and Scen makers is that some things are so intuitive, like adding vehicles or weapons to a force entry, as the program automatically focuses on the quantity box after dragging something accross. This saves moving the mouse and clicking into that box and so really reduces the fatigue effect of using the program. With the ScenMaker i like the way you can set the variability of values then apply say "strength" at 90% +/- 5%, and have that applied to all subordinates.
What gets me though, with the scenmaker, is that without using the function keys to toggle/cycle the unit icons you can't appreciate, at a glance, what the data values you've enterred are, or whether you've set all your units values correctly, especially reinforcements which don't appear at all!
Likewise, i don't think there's a visual representation of staff efficiency, despite the values usually being pretty low in stock scenarios. All my scenarios have been at default, including commander aggression etc. I imagine this has quite a big effect in the game.
Without this info being either in a spreasheet, where a glance down your column shows that all leadership values have been editted, or on some kind of table in the editor, its hard to assess whether you've in fact finished everything in your scenario. Checking your own work is, i'm sure you'll know, one of the hardest things to do.
However, i'm not sure whether another application is required or whether its just the editors which need tweaked.
For example, instead of having three tabs per force entry, in the estab editor (General/EquipmentSupply/Icon), and four tabs per force in the scenmaker (Summary/Strength/Supply/Commander) just having one big tab, in each, clearly seperated into those sub sections, might be instantly better Similarly, some tabs include very little data, like the "Gerneral" vs "Performance" tabs of vehicles and weapons, in the estab editor, which could be combined.
For the Scenmaker, a new option might be added to incorporate the mod PoE describes, so that you can enter values through the "wizard" box or direct via the spreadsheet window, perhaps by toggling an "expend/collapse OOB data" button. The spreadsheet window might expand from the current OOB pane (which wuld form the spinal left hand columns) but now with all the values from the forces different tabs running off to the right, each of might again be collapsible so as you can hide info, say supply or equipment, that you're not concerned about ATM. The image below gives you an idea what i'm on about.
Having everything in the same utility would also mean you can still use the wonderful functions, like "vary by 5% and cascade", plus the Fn key graphical representations feature and the user freindly but limiting GUI.
Similarly, in Estab editor, or in a third party application, i would be nice to see all the values for that entry in tabular form, against other entries, which you might tick or untick for comparision, so you could see that the Motorised unit you've created by cloning a foot mobile unit still has foot mobile movement rates. Alternatively, by sorting on SubForceType you could check that the all your engineers have infact got an engineer value attributed to them. Ditto for deploy times, which is a field i have been forgetting to watch.
Basically, anything that lets you grasp the particulars of your data effectively before you find your bridging column never had any bridges on D3 of your scenario! If these features can be included in the current editors all the better, but even an independant estab overviewer would be appreciated.
