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i was thinking of the ability to put hover jets under the titan to make it amphibious (or both land and water capable without the chance to fall down) that would make that water battle pretty cool. but the hover jets would make it hard to get over mountains...

Ok Megraz the BIG problem I see with your nano weapon is this.
1> The jock of titan A would have to have the same neural interface system which means he would have to be in a big titan too, but whats worse is he is now spliting his neural interface between 2 titans. This has got to be hard on your head and would most likely cause a lapse in perseption. This would make operating either titan nearly imposible. If it were possible for the jock to operate both titan at the same time he would probably come out of it with half his brains scrambled from the combined sensory imput.
2>Nanotech is very percise and expensive. The cost of such a weapon would be more than the titan it's self. Plus the ammo would cost millions to produce. It is a good base idea it just has too many draw backs to be an effective weapon. You could refine the idea in many was to make it more plausable. Instead of nanos just small robot that burrow into the internals and attack internal systems or perhaps ones that are programed to try and reach the cockpit and take out the jock himself. The latter being very worth while as you would be able to save the titan for salvage. Just remember there are no bad ideas just incomplet ones.

Not just that. Nanos would have to create a receiver/demodulator/decoder that would tap into the neural bridge and replace the link to the titan's jock. So why would the jock regain control after some time? Unstable nanos that break apart every so often?! Yeah right. Also, with so advanced tech, why wouldn't the nanos just right out *destroy* the engine or the heat reg or the life support? Or disable all weapons? Nope, nanos are way more powerful than what you're using them for, and you can't discard their power cause it suits you. Another detail, your "light" primary damage, 4 or 5 points, let me remind you that *each* SRM/LRM does 2 points, each NM 1 point, each GM 4 points. So what's so "light" about the NWM's impact damage?!
Seems to me you want some sort of mind control in the game. maybe adding a new race, with telephatic powers? (it's a joke)
BTW, if it's so technically possible to send thought patterns over radio, how much does it cost such a system in Italy nowadays? ehehe

To mutt2050:

Mmmm... Let's roll...

Ok Megraz the BIG problem I see with your nano weapon is this.
1> The jock of titan A would have to have the same neural interface system which means he would have to be in a big titan too, but whats worse is he is now spliting his neural interface between 2 titans. This has got to be hard on your head and would most likely cause a lapse in perseption. This would make operating either titan nearly imposible. If it were possible for the jock to operate both titan at the same time he would probably come out of it with half his brains scrambled from the combined sensory imput.

As I told in my last posts there are many possibilities if you use the NWM vector: one of these possibilities is that titan A (attacker) is a big titan (medium, heavy or assault) and that titan B (hit-titan) is a big titan too.
In this case the NWMs give to titan A's jock the possibility to gain the control of titan B.
You say that this is a very difficoult and dangerous thing... so you think it's impossible.
Yes... you're partially true.
It's not easy to gain the control of another titan.
But it's not impossible.
As I wrote in other posts:

if TITAN A's jock has got an high electronic warfare ability ( > or = 70%), and also a good indirect fire ability ( > or = 50%), TITAN A's jock will be able to try to take control of TITAN B.

I was meaning that, if a jock is not mentally prepared to tolerate the neural link, he won't be able to control the other titan (maybe also remaining mentally scrambled for a while).
We could discuss about establishing other limits.... but basically I think these limits I proposed are enough to balance the use of this weapon.
It's also true that is difficoult for a jock to pilot two titans in the same time.
And in fact I wrote:

it could be added a modifier when a "move" or an "attack" is ordered to a titan under-control: so you have to do a skill check (if you're the jock of titan A).

We can discuss about this... I'm waiting your replies


About the other problem:
2>Nanotech is very percise and expensive. The cost of such a weapon would be more than the titan it's self. Plus the ammo would cost millions to produce. It is a good base idea it just has too many draw backs to be an effective weapon. You could refine the idea in many was to make it more plausable. Instead of nanos just small robot that burrow into the internals and attack internal systems or perhaps ones that are programed to try and reach the cockpit and take out the jock himself. The latter being very worth while as you would be able to save the titan for salvage. Just remember there are no bad ideas just incomplet ones.

I never said that nanotech is cheap On the contrary I wrote:

this weapon is very sophisticated, so the missile-launcher (and the ammos too) should be very expensive.

I thought it would be useful to have a weapon like this also if it costs more than an assault titan costs itself:
actually the maximum number of jocks in a team is 8, and the maximum number of titan is 16. When you have 8 jocks and 16 titans in your team, and you have also a lot of money, you can replace the old titans, you can dismiss your old jocks and hire new jocks, you can repair the battle-damages, but you cannot expand your team.
So, sooner or later, you will start to accumulate money. And you cannot use it to overwhelm your enemies. This is good for a duel-like battle, 'cause the battle have to be balanced.
But if you think to a military campaign you have to admit that it really sucks if you cannot use all your money to overtake your opponents.
I proposed this weapon for the sequel of ToS:WS. They say that the new game has got kind of campaignes; so, if one day there will be a sequel, that sequel probably will have some more strategic aspects and this weapon should be very suitable.
About the weapons that damage internal systems I can say that sometimes ago it was proposed an EMP pulser, an entangler ray (for gyros and actuators), and also a smart missile able to hit the place where the engine is located.
Moreover in ToS v1.4 there's already the neutron blaster which affects the jock of the hit-titan. So I think that there are already good weapon-concepts that fit better for that kind of damages, and, if I change my idea in something else, the NWMs wouldn't have any reason to exist.

Megrez

About excess money, it's only in excess if your team is static in terms of titans. If you keep playing the same titans over and over again, you only need to worry about repairs, and replacing the occasional titan(s) lost in battle. But some players might want to change titans once in a while, and the game has to consider that. The database has 150 titans, 30 in each category. You can have up to 450. Experimenting is part of the fun.
Besides, v1.4 is know to be somewhat unbalanced in terms of money.

I never said it was impossible, I only said it was not practical. Such a weapon is a waste of capital if you look in to what it takes to make a nano. Each missle would cost millions and the benifits are to lacking along with the dangers to your own jock and the draw backs of such a weapon. I did say it was a good starting point for a weapon but it is too high tech for effective use on a battle field. It may be a good idea as a covert ops weapon, use it to steel mechs shut down at a base. In battle you have to remember the golden rule K.I.S.S. " Keep It Simple Stupid". Keep thinking them up though this is all apart of the fun of this game too.

To Iceman:

Nanos would have to create a receiver/demodulator/decoder that would tap into the neural bridge and replace the link to the titan's jock. So why would the jock regain control after some time? Unstable nanos that break apart every so often?! Yeah right.

No...
The nanos aren't unstable.
The fact is that big titans (medium, heavy and assault) are partially controlled with the neural bridge, but they have also manual controls (as Firestorm maintained in an previous post).
The jock is not dead (and he/she isn't mind-controlled), and he/she is still inside the cockpit.
I don't think that he/she is powerless in the face of his/her defeat.
Probably the jock will try to re-gain the controls of his/her titan before it's too late, using the manual controls to bypass the battle-computer and the neural-bridge device (depending from his/her abilities and attributes).
Moreover if the battle-computer is very good (I mean a top quality computer) it will have some internal defenses like firewalls or antivirus (maybe also specific anti-nanos defenses).
Apart that, the radio link between the attacker titan and the infected one could be obstructed by natural obstacles (did it never happen to you to be with your cell-phone near to a hill or to a mountain? Do you know what happens usually?).
Due to these reasons I think that the jock of the infected titan should be allowed to try to re-gain the controls.
So I proposed a periodical skill-check (every 50-60 seconds of game-time).
Maybe my proposal it's much simplistic, but we can discuss about this if you have other ideas.

Also, with so advanced tech, why wouldn't the nanos just right out *destroy* the engine or the heat reg or the life support? Or disable all weapons?

'Cause the purpose of this weapon is not to destroy the enemy; there are better and cheaper weapons to do that.
This weapon is designed to obtain the control of an enemy titan (medium, heavy or assault), which is a more strategical purpose.

Nope, nanos are way more powerful than what you're using them for, and you can't discard their power cause it suits you.

Maybe it's true, so if you want we can also discuss about other weapons based on nanos (with other purposes).

Another detail, your "light" primary damage, 4 or 5 points, let me remind you that *each* SRM/LRM does 2 points, each NM 1 point, each GM 4 points. So what's so "light" about the NWM's impact damage?!

Well... The missile which transports the nanos (from this moment I will call it as "vector") is not small: I was thinking about a "cruise"-class (or "tomahawk"-class) missile.
I think that SRM, LRM, NM and also GM are smaller than this type of missile (I think to them as "maverick"-class or "hellfire"-class missiles); but they have an explosive war-head so they make some points of damage.
A "cruise"-class missile filled with an explosive war-head would produce an higher damage (like an autocannon 20 I think).
But the NWM-vector hasn't got a warhead. So it cannot produces such an high damage. But it's a big missile and when it impacts its target it produces a sort of light damage (I thought like a punch of a light or medium titan).
Maybe it's not a "light" damage if you compare it to the damages produced by other types of missiles in ToS, but you have to admit that a "cruise"-class missile with an explosive war-head should make more than 4-5 points of damage; in addition to this, NWM-vector launcher has got low ammos (I proposed 2 or 3), so it cannot strike the enemy-titans many times as the SRM or LRM.....
Moreover 4 or 5 points of damage are enough to justify a penetration inside the armour of the hit-titan.

Seems to me you want some sort of mind control in the game. maybe adding a new race, with telephatic powers? (it's a joke)

I don't believe in telephaty... sorry :p

BTW, if it's so technically possible to send thought patterns over radio, how much does it cost such a system in Italy nowadays? ehehe

Well... Probably it would cost a capital.... But to say the truth also a nuclear engine should cost a capital (and in ToS titans are equipped with nuclear engines).

About excess money, it's only in excess if your team is static in terms of titans. If you keep playing the same titans over and over again, you only need to worry about repairs, and replacing the occasional titan(s) lost in battle. But some players might want to change titans once in a while, and the game has to consider that. The database has 150 titans, 30 in each category. You can have up to 450. Experimenting is part of the fun.
Besides, v1.4 is know to be somewhat unbalanced in terms of money.

That's true... but I think that another way to use the money should be to acquire extravagant weapon-systems or expensive equipping.... it's only an idea which is different from yours

Megrez

Ok, I don't want to be blunt, but your weapon is useless. Check the neural bridge. It helps the jock in *piloting* the titan, it has no effect in its *weapons*. So you can't use the controlled titan's weapons. What can you do with it then? Besides cheating (swimming in a pool of lava or acid, running off a cliff, fleeing the battle), nothing! So you're using a titan that costs zillions to *temporarily* freeze an enemy, a limited (low) number of times, with no other use in battle - a dead weight actually. More, to program such a weapon would take more time than what it would be worth in terms of adding to the game.

Oh, and I found your cell-phone example amusing. You mean you, controlling my titan, will lead it around a mountain so *I* can regain control?! Nice talking to you Megrez.

To Iceman:

Ok, I don't want to be blunt, but your weapon is useless. Check the neural bridge. It helps the jock in *piloting* the titan, it has no effect in its *weapons*. So you can't use the controlled titan's weapons.

You say that.... but I wrote different things :p
In fact "my" NWMs infect both the neural bridge and the battle computer: and the battle computer is used to point all the weapons.
I don't know what are the features of "your" NWMs... but "my" NWMs permit the attacker-titan also to obtain the control of the weapons.
I always talked about "to gain the controls" not only "to pilot".
So an infected titan could be used also to fire at its team-mates.
Next time, when you give a critique of my ideas, read better what I wrote down
Apart that you write:

What can you do with it then? Besides cheating (swimming in a pool of lava or acid, running off a cliff, fleeing the battle), nothing!

Well... also if I cannot use the weapons there are other things that I can do... not only the things you're remembering me
Example:
1) I can order to the infected titan to jump, and then I could leave it fluctuating in the sky until its jump-ports finish their charge. So the titan will collapse to the surface.
2) I can eject the enemy jock
3) I can order to the infected titan the self-destruction (if the new version of ToS:WS will have this improvement)
So, also without the use of the infected-titan's weapons, NWMs are quite lethal.

You continue:

So you're using a titan that costs zillions to *temporarily* freeze an enemy, a limited (low) number of times, with no other use in battle - a dead weight actually.

That's not true the only case in which NWMs "freeze" the hit-titan is when the attacker titan is a recon or light titan, and the hit-titan is a medium, heavy or assault titan.
Moreover NWMs don't act only a limited number of times.... never said that
On the contrary I wrote:

If the jock pass the skill check, from that moment, at every 50/60 game-seconds, he/she has got to do another time the skill check ('cause the NW-machines are still resident on the TITAN B).

I was meaning that, also if the jock re-gain the control of its titan, until the battle is finished and damaged titans are repaired at the factory, it's impossible to remove the NWMs. So they remain active until the end of the battle.
And at every 50/60 game-seconds the jock have to do a skill-check to keep the control of his/her titan.
So, try to imagine about a recon titan which has got the NWM-vector and a close combat weapon (like a flamethrower), and to an assault titan full of powerfull weapons and with an heavy armour.
The recon will strike the assault with the NWM-vector, and then it has to hold out against the assault until the NWMs freeze it (20/30 seconds of game-time). When the assault is "frozen", the recon starts to make called-shots to the assault's cockpit with the flamethrower, killing the enemy-jock: and it wins the battle
So my weapon permits to a recon titan to beat and assault model if it is used properly: it doesn't seem to me my weapon is so useless


You say also:

More, to program such a weapon would take more time than what it would be worth in terms of adding to the game.

Mmm.. maybe it's true that to program NWM's vector it would take a lot of time, but I proposed it for the sequel of ToS:WS. I think they have all the time they need And maybe my weapon would add some "spicy" to this game (also if you don't think so)

And about the other thing:

Oh, and I found your cell-phone example amusing. You mean you, controlling my titan, will lead it around a mountain so *I* can regain control?! Nice talking to you Megrez.

With that example I made in my last post I was simply meaning that if you're controlling another titan with NWMs, and somebody attacks your titan forcing you to escape, the connection between your titan and the infected one could be interrupted if you move behind a mountain or a big hill: but there other reasons which permit to the jock of the infected titan to re-gain the control of its machine; this is to balance the offensive potential of this weapon, which is very high (also if you don't think so).


Megrez

To mutt2050:
If you read this last reply to Iceman probably you will understand why the NWMs are not so useless during a battle, and why their benefits overtake the disadvantages.
Moreover my weapon is not so difficoult to use: if it is installed on a titan, the only thing that a joke has to do is to fire it to the target. NWMs do all the work
Apart that I don't believe in that "golden rule"
It's quite controversial about games, and it doesn't mean anything in the real world (ask to O.T.A.N.'s headquarters and to DARPA's bureau too )

Megrez

to Iceman and mutt2050:
Now it's my turn to say something
I red your posts about the EMP and the MGD.
I think you two are forgetting something which is very important.
In ToS v1.4, and probably also in ToS:WS, there are two races that could be influenced by those kinds of weaponry.
I'm talking about cyborgs and androids
As you can read in the manual:

Androids are like those you may know from Alien II or Alien IV movies. In our game they have
self healing abilities and are sexless. They do not benefit from the healing capabilities of life
supports, but they are less vulnerable to radiation effects caused by neutron blasters or
engine explosions. Androids gain +1 on both reaction and neural sense attributes.

Cyborgs are sturdy humans enhanced with cybernetic implants. They receive +1 on constitution
but suffer a -1 penalty on charisma. Cyborgs are less vulnerable to certain effects caused by
damaged life supports or cockpit hits.

So? What do you think would be the effect of an EMP pulser or of a MGD on the jocks inside the cockpits if they're from these two races?
Example:
A cyborg has got an artificial heart: if he/she is hit by your rays, he/she will die immediately.

If I remember well the Alien's movies also androids have got cables and electric devices....

So I think this kind of weapon would un-balance the actual characteristics of the different races in ToS (the best characteristic of a cyborg is that he/she is very resistant to wounds.... if it's easily possible to wound a cyborg, the cyborg race results useless, 'cause it also suffers of a penalty in charisma, and so on....)

With my weapon it's possible to "freeze" an opponent without having all these problems
Try to think about

Megrez

The battle computer *helps* in making all the *calculations*. Who said anything about pointing the weapons, and especially *firing* them? Do you know what a battle computer is at least? Next time when you write your posts check what you're saying

The examples I gave are *movement* mode related, yours are *attack* mode related, except for the jump maneuver - but not all titans have jump ports, hence I left it out. The jock *cannot* have access to attack mode, whatever you say. "Your" NWM does not work.

About the races, Replicants are *highly* susceptible to radiation, and I don't stop using them because of that. Don't see your point.

you know, i'm finding this very entertaining to read. i've sided with Hetz from the beginning, but still, Megerez, you make a good arguer. You might be able to argue yourself into a position of power some day, and then you could *force* VB to implement your NWM.

IMHO, the wepon would be badly overbalanced, even if it could only shut down a mech. you can't balace it out with money: the only thing i ever pay attention to is the cost of full titans. i don't care about the individual wepons cost. IMHO, in order to balance this out, you'd have to make it suck a) massive amounts of energy, b) massive amounts of time (to reload), c) massive amounts of time (to cool off) (i'm talking raising your heat by 50-60+ degrees). with something like that, nobody would use the wepon, unless they had mulah and jocksouring out the woodwork.

About the K.I.S.S. rule that is ture that it does not always apply but you might want to talk to some vets about it not applying (I hope they don't smack you around to much). As ffor my statement about the jock being effected by it try focusing on two pionts on the horizon at the same time and see what kind of a headache you get. Then there is your comment about me and Thorgrims discusion. If you have had a chance to read the last couple of post you would have found that Thorgrim showed sufficent evidence to prove his point (as he has done here) and make his explinatyions clear. In the end I believe we have come to the agreement that these are just two options on the possible useabilty of EMP in the game. There is still however a balance problem with EMP and would need to be resolved before it could be fairly used in the game. Your weapon ( which I said before is not a bad base idea) is more based in sci-fi than any real applications. The point to this is you are trying to create a GOD weapon. One with gigantic benifits and minimal drawbacks for what something so sophisticated would have.

Having used the EMP extensively in TOS:WS, I can say its a good weapon but its not completely terrifying. I'd fear the Vibra blade or the 'not going to tell you' weapon more.

Still the EMP is a cool weapon for the smaller class of Titans.

So, rosary how about a sneek preview of the EMP weapon.

Originally posted by firestorm
you know, i'm finding this very entertaining to read. i've sided with Hetz from the beginning, but still, Megerez, you make a good arguer. You might be able to argue yourself into a position of power some day, and then you could *force* VB to implement your NWM.

Is Hetzer participating in this discussion?!
And for him to force Larkin into something he would have to beat him in battle. Not easy...

oops, stupid me... that was you, not hetz...
i'm getting confused, because you had to change your nicks when you came to the new forum... sorry..

Actually, Thorgrim is my user name, but there was some kind of confusion in the forums a while ago and nicks were changed to the user name by default... hence the sig.

You know Rosary I think the effects of sleep deprovation are getting to you. So, how about that sneek preview of the EMP weapons stats,please.