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ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

ORIGINAL: axisandallies

ORIGINAL: Punk Reaper

Wales and Scotland have there own Parliament with some limited powers. They are also represented in the British Parliament in London where the main decisions are made about taxation, foreign policy etc... In my experience the Welsh and the Scottish are more nationalist than the English (Remember they have their own language) Ask a Scot what his nationality is and he'll probably say Scottish, ask an Englishman what his nationality is and he will probably either say English or British.

I believe that this is due to history. The English were invaded by Rome and Romanised while Scotland and Wales were able to resist and retain there culture. Same happened but to a lesser extent under the Norman invasion. The English invaded Scotland and Wales on numerous occasions suppressing the population, thus creating a stronger bond on nationalism.

In my experience we all get along fine however you will always find some people who are resentful of the past and present wrongs and are either rude or want independence. (There is to be a vote on Scottish independence some) but the majority seem to see the benefits of a United Kingdom.

Now over to Judge for his opinion

I have read that there is a movement for Scottish independence. Granted I don't think it's as big as French Canadian movement. Can I be correct in saying that there must be some sense of national pride, I mean when Scotland plays England in soccer. Also would a Scot get harassed if he had a T-shirt that said Scotland #1 walking down the streets of London?

Now, on a political level, Thatcher did nothing to ease the tensions in the UK when she systematically reduced Scotland in the 80's. She poured a wee bit of salt into the wound by "trying out" a controversial tax on a people she showed little respect for. Those things alone alienated the Scottish people from Central UK Government rule. Hence the push for devolution and independence.

Warspite1

Just a word in response to JudgeDredd on this point. I guess I come from the other side of the political divide, and while I would not for one moment suggest Lady Thatcher got everything right, she did get many of the cruicially important things right to drag this country kicking and screaming into the 20th century.

One of the most obvious exceptions and one which I still struggle to this day to understand is the Poll Tax. Personally I think it was a good idea - why should a 30-year old on £50,000 a year pay no local tax just because he lives with his parents while a young family on £20,000 does?

However, this was clearly going to be a difficult sell to the populace and yet despite that, the Tory government made the most unbelievable error. They "tested" it out on the Scottish first!!! Incredibly poor judgement and one for which I 've never heard an explantion....still I guess they are still paying for that error to this day - how many Tory MP's in Scotland?

I agree with pretty much most of your thoughts...

As for the sport - the "Union Jack" waving I think is an unfortunate product of the fact that the English don't seem to have/are not allowed/do not feel the need to be as nationalistic. I think it's the political view of the Government that have enforced that over the years. I'm glad to say (for you lot) that the attitude is changing. I haven't seen a single solitary Union Jack during the world cup - the country (near me) is covered in St Georges crosses - and that's the way it should be. As I said - it's the ambiguity that causes the problems. To be fair to commentators, it's a minefield for them.

As for not wearing an English top in Scotland - I apologise that you feel that way. As I alluded to in my post - I believe there is a hostility. as I also said in my post, I believe (fueled by the media) that hostility is becoming apparent in England now too.

However, saying that - you will encounter all sorts of levels of racism and nationalism anywhere. For example, when I left the aforementioned rugby match (Scotland v England), I was treated to sights of Medieval Knights wearing Crusade uniforms dancing on a hill to the sound of the pipes and hundreds of people (Scottish and English) looking on and cheering. On the other hand I was down in Sainsburys in our lovely town of Plymouth wearing my Scotland rugby top and was greeted with a young lad saying to his mum "Yuck mum....someone's married a Scottish bloke"...it happens. For the most part I have felt safe and welcome in England.

And I would agree....I never did like Thatcher, but she did drag the country forward.

But a caveat is some of her policies were disgraceful...not least of all the Poll Tax (more importantly trying it on a nation she had already pissed off which stank of "yeah whatever - have some of this too). Selling council accomodation (the very reason why so many layabouts in the UK get nice shiny 3 and 4 bedroom houses!!). The dismantling of the armed forces (an the message this sent to the Argentinians) to make them all full of gung ho about Las Malvinas...

She wasn't all evil...but you'd be hard pushed to find a Scot to agree with that [;)]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

As for not wearing an English top in Scotland - I apologise that you feel that way. As I alluded to in my post - I believe there is a hostility. as I also said in my post, I believe (fueled by the media) that hostility is becoming apparent in England now too.

However, saying that - you will encounter all sorts of levels of racism and nationalism anywhere. For example, when I left the aforementioned rugby match (Scotland v England), I was treated to sights of Medieval Knights wearing Crusade uniforms dancing on a hill to the sound of the pipes and hundreds of people (Scottish and English) looking on and cheering. On the other hand I was down in Sainsburys in our lovely town of Plymouth wearing my Scotland rugby top and was greeted with a young lad saying to his mum "Yuck mum....someone's married a Scottish bloke"...it happens. For the most part I have felt safe and welcome in England.

Warspite1

Yes, I guess the English top in Scotland is no different to wearing a Tottenham shirt at Millwall....and I wouldn't dream of doing that either!!

Its interesting you mentioned the crusade outfit. One of the difficulties is where do we draw the line? E.g. in the crowd at the England vs Germany debacle were a couple of guys in said outfit and a couple more in WWII RAF outfits complete with handlebar moustache. If the former is offensive isn't the latter? Personally, I don't find either offensive but am aware that there will always be someone who will. Difficult one that [&:].

As for the sad comment in Plymouth, there's friendly joshing when you know someone and then there's unacceptable cr*p ........ I don't suppose you accidently clouted said moron round the head? No? Shame [;)]

I guess it all depends, in my experience the further south a Scot goes the more Scottish he becomes [:D]  Generally I'm happy to say I'm British, but for suitable sporting events I'm English (despite my Welsh, Scottish and COrnish blood) [;)]  I'm happy for the other Home Nations to do well when they aren't playing England, I'd love to see all four at the same international tournament.

I'd probably think twice before wearing something that marked me out as English in Scotland, although it would depend more on where I was.  I wouldn't be bothered in some areas, but in the bigger cities I think I'd steer clear (and not speak much either [:D]).  Some of the most bitter (anti-English) people I've known have been Scottish, on the other hand some of the most friendly welcoming people I've met have been Scottish. 

ORIGINAL: warspite1


As for the sad comment in Plymouth, there's friendly joshing when you know someone and then there's unacceptable cr*p ........ I don't suppose you accidently clouted said moron round the head? No? Shame [;)]

Don't knock Plymouth [:-] I'm a Janner, even if I did grow up surrounded by Yellow Bellies [:D] We aren't all anti-Scottish [;)]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

The dismantling of the armed forces (an the message this sent to the Argentinians) to make them all full of gung ho about Las Malvinas...

Warspite1

The ONLY reason Lady Thatcher got re-elected in 1983 (her economic policies were not then bearing fruit) was because she proved she had balls the size of church bells and refused to allow the Argentinians to get away with taking the Falklands by force [&o].

And yet, the only reason the crackpot Junta thought now is the time to invade was because of the tories "defence review" that effectively told Galtieri and co to help themselves.

They say it's better to be born lucky than rich......or as Greavsie would say - it's a funny old game isn't it?

ORIGINAL: Dixie

ORIGINAL: warspite1


As for the sad comment in Plymouth, there's friendly joshing when you know someone and then there's unacceptable cr*p ........ I don't suppose you accidently clouted said moron round the head? No? Shame [;)]

Don't knock Plymouth [:-] I'm a Janner, even if I did grow up surrounded by Yellow Bellies [:D] We aren't all anti-Scottish [;)]

Warspite1

Dixie - I wouldn't dream of knocking Plymouth. Although I support Spurs, I have a huge soft spot for all three Devon clubs - Plymouth Argyle being my fave - because Devon is my favourite county and I spent many a summer holiday as a kid in that part of the world. My brother then lived near Plymouth for many years after he joined the Royal Navy. Definately no knocking of that great naval city from me [&o].

That kid still needs a slap though [:D]

Edited for rubbish spelling and too much information.

I was on holiday in Dartmoor. Beautiful part of the country, Devon is.

As for the wee fella, nah...I just walked on. I did think about saying "yuck...Sharon, look...someones had a wee English bairn"...but then again...like I say - it happens. Fortunately, in 23 years of living in England I've never felt like I shouldn't be here.

And Thatcher did have balls the size of church bells. I concede most definitely she wasn't all bad. Though she did instigate the demise of the Conservative party from Scotland.

As for the Scotland England rugby/football thing...I just can't. I've tried and I can't. I mean - we've been gubbed by you so many times, it makes supporting you impossible [:'(]

I support your cricket team though...[:D] although with the rise of a Scottish team (should I say "creation" instead of "rise"?), that all may change one day [:D]

At the end of the day, its all a (fairly) friendly rivally - except for some parts of Wales, who seem to really take it to heart. Three years living in a welsh nationalist area as an Englishman really taught me to hate the nationalists - and the best ways to wind them up.
 
I can see why having three "countries" as part of one would confuse people, but then Britain has always been about taking the best parts of things. (langauges, ideas, people, small countries, food, that kind of trivial thing.) At the end of the day, none of the three would survive half as well without the others, and none of them have been real countries in hundreds of years.
 

Wearing English football and rugby tops etc is not so erm dangerous where I live in East Lothian. Haddington is the nearest town to where I live and quite a few peeps walk about wearing them. Sure like all places we have our 'nutter's' but most of the more unstable ones only come out at night and then head straight to the pub [:D]

I too served in the Royal navy and in a lot of cases I was the only 'Jock' on board [:D] I can't remember having any problems with anyone on board or at shore bases becuase I was Scottish.

I did pee on the Admirals statue of a Flamingo after a run a shore one night in the dark, but just put on an English accent when I was being chased and made good my escape.[8D]

Cheers

Jev

I think I speak for a lot of American males when I say that there is nothing more sexy in this world than an attractive female with an English/Welsh/Scottish/Irish accent. Zowee! 

ORIGINAL: Slick Wilhelm

I think I speak for a lot of American males when I say that there is nothing more sexy in this world than an attractive female with an English/Welsh/Scottish/Irish accent. Zowee! 

Warspite1

I trust you are talking well spoken English e.g. Keira Knightley's voice and accent as opposed to "estuary" English e.g. Barbara Windsor's voice and accent?

As an Englishman I'd go:

Well spoken English / Southern Irish / Scottish / Northern Irish / Welsh. But if expanding to other parts of the world would add French, Aussies and Kiwis to that list. Anyway, cold shower time me thinks......

ORIGINAL: Slick Wilhelm

I think I speak for a lot of American males when I say that there is nothing more sexy in this world than an attractive female with an English/Welsh/Scottish/Irish accent. Zowee! 

Catherine Zeta Jones FTW!

I must defend Mrs Thatcher - as I do often specifically regarding the Community Charge or Poll Tax. As she wanted to introduce the tax nationwide, Secretary of State for Scotland, George Younger advised the Prime Minister that it would be best to try the new tax out in Scotland first. He was under enormous pressure to replace the hated "Rates" system. So everyone agreed that the year 1989-90 would be the introduction date.
By then, George had left and was replaced by Malcolm Rifkind who ALSO agreed that the tax should be implemented first in Scotland and NOT in the UK as the Prime Minister would have preferred. So her "crime" was to take and heed the advice of her top officers in Scotland.
Malcolm Rifkind would later feel regretful the day the Poll Tax was ever implemented.
Anyway, sorry for the political slant.

ORIGINAL: teddy

I must defend Mrs Thatcher - as I do often specifically regarding the Community Charge or Poll Tax. As she wanted to introduce the tax nationwide, Secretary of State for Scotland, George Younger advised the Prime Minister that it would be best to try the new tax out in Scotland first. He was under enormous pressure to replace the hated "Rates" system. So everyone agreed that the year 1989-90 would be the introduction date.
By then, George had left and was replaced by Malcolm Rifkind who ALSO agreed that the tax should be implemented first in Scotland and NOT in the UK as the Prime Minister would have preferred. So her "crime" was to take and heed the advice of her top officers in Scotland.
Malcolm Rifkind would later feel regretful the day the Poll Tax was ever implemented.
Anyway, sorry for the political slant.

Warspite1

Teddy - do you know WHY those two ministers were so keen for the tax to be tried in Scotland first?

ORIGINAL: Slick Wilhelm

I think I speak for a lot of American males when I say that there is nothing more sexy in this world than an attractive female with an English/Welsh/Scottish/Irish accent. Zowee! 

[&o][&o][&o][&o][&o]

ORIGINAL: Slick Wilhelm

I think I speak for a lot of American males when I say that there is nothing more sexy in this world than an attractive female with an English/Welsh/Scottish/Irish accent. Zowee! 

What ilovestrategy said... but add Aussie.

E does have a point! 

ORIGINAL: E

ORIGINAL: Slick Wilhelm

I think I speak for a lot of American males when I say that there is nothing more sexy in this world than an attractive female with an English/Welsh/Scottish/Irish accent. Zowee! 

What ilovestrategy said... but add Aussie.

Warspite1

Please see post 33