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RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:45 am
by SoliInvictus202
second unit
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:00 am
by Itdepends
It's worth noting that those TF's got hit in both the AM and PM air phases- with no LRCAP showing up in either phase.
Daniel
Edit: - It's also worth noting I suppose, I should, yeah ok that the BF providing those torps were still in Strat mode- having only just been told to get their asses off the train in the orders phase just before that action (well- I guess they did see the TF coming- maybe the left all the REMF's on the train and made a bee line for the torps).
WAD?
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:08 am
by Sardaukar
IIRC, you can LRCAP only up to normal range, not extended range. I don't know if this is why you cannot LRCAP those TFs..in screenshots ranges are 3 and 8..well within.
But I am not entirely sure if it takes drop tanks to that calculation or not...so your problem might be related to range to TFs. After all, planes have to fly there and then loiter on LRCAP, so range cannot be too far.
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:16 am
by SoliInvictus202
ORIGINAL: Sardaukar
IIRC, you can LRCAP only up to normal range, not extended range. I don't know if this is why you cannot LRCAP those TFs..in screenshots ranges are 3 and 8..well within.
But I am not entirely sure if it takes drop tanks to that calculation or not...so your problem might be related to range to TFs. After all, planes have to fly there and then loiter on LRCAP, so range cannot be too far.
thanks - that might explain it for yesterday'S disaster - cause it was within extended range - I guess I didn't find that in the manual then
....the disaster 2 days ago however was well within normal range and only 1 of the 3 LRCAPing squadrons even had drop tanks on....
at least I'm sort of convinced that I didn't do anything majorly wrong...
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:28 am
by VSWG
Looks fine to me, too. I guess weather is the only explanation left, even if it is far fetched: for 4 days only your AF was closed due to weather, and the target hex and the Allied bases were not...?
You could post a save in the tech support forum and ask a dev to look at it. They can debug a save and find out what happened to your LRCAP. There might be an issue here.
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:33 am
by Sardaukar
Found some discussion with search function, mentioning that LRCAP works only within normal (clean range without droptanks) range of plane. So I bet range to TF is your problem. What is your planes' normal range without drop tanks?
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:43 am
by SoliInvictus202
11 or 12 I think
ORIGINAL: Sardaukar
Found some discussion with search function, mentioning that LRCAP works only within normal (clean range without droptanks) range of plane. So I bet range to TF is your problem. What is your planes' normal range without drop tanks?
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:49 am
by rtrapasso
ORIGINAL: SoliInvictus202
11 or 12 I think
ORIGINAL: Sardaukar
Found some discussion with search function, mentioning that LRCAP works only within normal (clean range without droptanks) range of plane. So I bet range to TF is your problem. What is your planes' normal range without drop tanks?
Could there be some glitch that the planes WON'T go to LR-CAP when they have drop-tanks on (even if they would be within normal range?)
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:55 am
by VSWG
That would be my guess as well. Soli, can you test LRCAP without drop-tanks?
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:02 pm
by SoliInvictus202
ORIGINAL: VSWG
That would be my guess as well. Soli, can you test LRCAP without drop-tanks?
there won't be an occasion next turn that I can....as all the ships that would be in need of LRCAp are either sunk or sinking [:D]
I could against the AI - but I have learnt that the games against the AI are no reference at all for a PBEM game - many things seem to work differently there...
I will test it as soon as the occasion presents itself of course - but I have yet to digest those impossible losses I have suffered - as my entire tactic was based on the assumption that the conquest in the DEI will NOT need carrier support - and that the TFs can be protected by LRCap - which they obviously can't....
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:15 pm
by Sardaukar
ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
ORIGINAL: SoliInvictus202
11 or 12 I think
ORIGINAL: Sardaukar
Found some discussion with search function, mentioning that LRCAP works only within normal (clean range without droptanks) range of plane. So I bet range to TF is your problem. What is your planes' normal range without drop tanks?
Could there be some glitch that the planes WON'T go to LR-CAP when they have drop-tanks on (even if they would be within normal range?)
That can well be the case, might be worth making thread on Tech Support and putting save there.
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:22 pm
by Alfred
ORIGINAL: SoliInvictus202
11 or 12 I think
ORIGINAL: Sardaukar
Found some discussion with search function, mentioning that LRCAP works only within normal (clean range without droptanks) range of plane. So I bet range to TF is your problem. What is your planes' normal range without drop tanks?
SoliInvictus202,
Sorry but you are quite mistaken.
The clean range of the A6M2 Zero is only 7 hexes for normal range, 9 hexes at extended. These ranges can be increased with the use of drop tanks up to 11 and 14 respectively. However, AFAIK, using drop tanks is not compatible with flying LRCAP. Thus, as pointed out in post #18, you are limited to a range of only 7 hexes if you want your ships to be LRCAP'ed by A6M2 Zeros.
From Kendari or Makassar the range to Koepang is 10 hexes. From Kendari to Denpassar the range is 13 hexes. from Makassar to Denpassar the range is 8 hexes. In all these instances the range is beyond the normal clean range of your Zeros.
Alfred
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:27 pm
by SoliInvictus202
ORIGINAL: Alfred
ORIGINAL: SoliInvictus202
11 or 12 I think
ORIGINAL: Sardaukar
Found some discussion with search function, mentioning that LRCAP works only within normal (clean range without droptanks) range of plane. So I bet range to TF is your problem. What is your planes' normal range without drop tanks?
SoliInvictus202,
Sorry but you are quite mistaken.
The clean range of the A6M2 Zero is only 7 hexes for normal range, 9 hexes at extended. These ranges can be increased with the use of drop tanks up to 11 and 14 respectively. However, AFAIK, using drop tanks is not compatible with flying LRCAP. Thus, as pointed out in post #18, you are limited to a range of only 7 hexes if you want your ships to be LRCAP'ed by A6M2 Zeros.
From Kendari or Makassar the range to Koepang is 10 hexes. From Kendari to Denpassar the range is 13 hexes. from Makassar to Denpassar the range is 8 hexes. In all these instances the range is beyond the normal clean range of your Zeros.
Alfred
if that is the case - you can confirm that LRCap only works without droptanks?
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:39 pm
by Sardaukar
I don't think drop tanks really matter, because LRCAP max. range is normal clean range. Thus it does not matter if you carry them or not, you can only LRCAP up to 7 hexes with A6M2.
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:42 pm
by SoliInvictus202
ORIGINAL: Sardaukar
I don't think drop tanks really matter, because LRCAP max. range is normal clean range. Thus it does not matter if you carry them or not, you can only LRCAP up to 7 hexes with A6M2.
.
ok...that explains yesterday's debacle...but still not the one before...as this was only (just checked) 6 hexes away from Kendari....so...this should have worked then...
anyway - thanks for all the answers.....
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:51 pm
by SoliInvictus202
just one last question:
why select LRCAP - if CAP has the same effect? - i've seen ships being protected by Cap (first turn Buffaloes over Force Z, or several other occasions later on in my game as Allied) - and that works better apparently...
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:56 pm
by VSWG
Not sure I understand the question...? You can't give a destination for "CAP". You can set up a CAP and then hope for "leaking CAP" by increasing the max range, but you have no control whatsoever how many and where your fighters show up.
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:56 pm
by VSWG
Tip: if you want to LRCAP a TF and you know 100 % that this TF will end its turn in a certain base hex (either friendly of hostile), LRCAP the base, and not the TF.
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:59 pm
by Grollub
The manaul doesn't say anything specific about LRCAP and drop tanks. What it says, however, is (on p153); "The amount of fighters protecting the friendly units at the moment of an enemy airstrike is based on the range to the hex being protected and the normal radius of the aircraft flying Long Range CAP" (bold text put in by me).
In my games, I've never set LRCAP beyond normal range and I've had few problems. Ok, some times I've wished that the CAP would've been a little heavier, but such is life ... [:)]
RE: LRCap-.....no idea how to get it to work
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:03 pm
by Alfred
LRCAP (specifically because you can set a destination) is also used to intercept enemy transport planes dropping supplies, picking up/dropping LCUs.
As VSWG has posted, without the use of LRCAP you would be dependent on "leaky" CAP. That will deliver far fewer fighters than a dedicated LRCAP over your Task Force.
Alfred