Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

And one more thing while I'm on the subject of things I think need to be "fixed". Um......I can't move my choppers to enemy territory. I can drop an airmobile dude jumping out of a plane in enemy territory. But I can't fly a chopper to the same hex. Totally unrealistic. PAVE LOW choppers routinely drop SF teams in enemy locations. And then a couple of weeks later go and get them from a similar spot. At night. In bad weather. While being shot at. After a recent divorce. While having a magnificant headache. On an empty stomach.

The way i see it a PAVE LOW helicopter wouldn't land in the hex either in TOAW. You would select the spec ops unit and go "board helicopters", then drop the unit in the desired hex.

You probably all know this, but I'll say it anyway. The Soviet HIND helicopter is an attack helicopter with room for a fully equipped half-squad inside, hence the transport capability.

ORIGINAL: polarenper
The way i see it a PAVE LOW helicopter wouldn't land in the hex either in TOAW. You would select the spec ops unit and go "board helicopters", then drop the unit in the desired hex.

Okie dokie. See, this I can understand. The range of the chopper is used to penetrate to the desired hex. Okay. I can 'get it' now. That's cool with me. I don't have a problem with that. Case closed.

Would you surrender before your second turn if you were NATO and saw this?:

15,000 infantry are dead.

All 417 T72 tanks are destroyed and they do not replenish in this scenario.

1,000 of 4,000 M48 Patton 3 Improved tanks are gone and do not replenish.

Warsaw is surrounded and ready to fall, meaning you will lose all Polish troops.

Losses were so severe before you even got to make your first move that all you could do was dig in, try to move reserves to a defensive line and then read a sitrep.log in 19 battles where losses were from 71 to 100 percent.

I'm attaching a screenshot that shows how deeply Russia has penetrated before I even start Turn 2. Warsaw is surrounded and ready to fall.

And, as you can see, I have nothing in sight to pretend to mount a defense.

Seriously, would you surrender before you even begin Turn 2?

By the way, I had Air Superiority of 113-70, but Russia had no problem annihilating my aircraft and getting to my tanks.

(As a footnote, it has taken me 10 moves as Russia vs. Elmer to advance this far to Warsaw in the smaller scenario of Europe only).

I know Larry is an expert and I'm a newbie, but I haven't even had a chance to screw up or do anything before this position in the large scenario.

Maybe your not supposed to hold Poland in this scenario just absorb the punishment and fall back untill the Russians are worn down and they are starting to slow down it looks like there is some good defensive terrain in western Poland and eastern Germany,With regards to your airforces where are they based the farther away from the front they are the lower there effectivness also Larry is probarbly hitting your airfields with SSMs its frustrating i know i played one scenario as UK/USA against western europe i had 6 harriers and 4 B2 Spirit bombers against Western europes hundreds of F16/Mirage/Tornado and the list went, on stick with it just try to screen his advance and build your major defense line further back.

Good luck

It's possible that this is working as designed, but I can't believe that NATO and their Allies would not have some sort of fortified front-line defense. And I guess it's set to lose 20 percent of all forces on the map after the first move. Kind of wonder why spend all the time and effort to place all the forces if you know they'll be gone after the first move.

Remember that I've only had one turn so the aircraft are pretty much in their default position and what I moved forward got overrun.

You sure are going to receive reinforcements aye. Sweat it out and see how it develops... An elastic defense may be your best bet

Here's a 4Meg file that shows the moves by the WP in turn 2:

http://b.imagehost.org/0148/wp_moves_in_turn_2.gif

I'm still up in the air about Serbia.  It's still in danger of being overrun.  The rest of the map.....I'm comfortable with the rest of the map.  Just Serbia is a problem for me.  Isreal is, surprisingly, falling apart.  I guess it's because I have all the artillery in the world on the southern front with Isreal.  I attacked a bunch of targets hoping to stir up some furballs and had set my fighters to ignore losses and I shot down a bunch of Allied planes but I lost a boat-load of fighters myself.  The end result is that now the Air Power meter says the Allies and WP are roughly equal now.  OOoops.  That didn't work like I had intended.  I used to have a substantial lead and now I don't so attacking his airbases wasn't a really really good idea I guess.  The Iraq-ie army isn't worth the food it takes to keep them alive.  Their proficiency is like 48% or something.  Same with the Iranians though.   No wonder they blead each other white in their war a long time ago.  Losses like I've seldom seen were taking place on their common border this turn.  I'm going to have to use the Iranians to chase down partisans from here on I guess.  They aren't much good for attacking and are very poor on defense.  So........

Here's the main front line at the end of turn 2. Those Allied units painted red on green are almost all gone now. But Allied reinforcements are starting to show up at the front. It's going to be a long war I think maybe.

I just hope the real factions in Russia and Europe are playing war games like this to see what a horrible bloodbath this is. Even Vladimir Putin might pop a John Lennon CD in and start singing, "All I'm saying is give peace a chance."

ORIGINAL: toawfan
I just hope the real factions in Russia and Europe are playing war games like this to see what a horrible bloodbath this is. Even Vladimir Putin might pop a John Lennon CD in and start singing, "All I'm saying is give peace a chance."

I'll bet that Root'n Toot'n Putin is planning the take-over of Georgia just like I did. And then there's points south to think about. And then there's the Med.....he's had his eyes on the med from the time he was knee-high to a grasshopper.

Here's the SAL file I saved at some point in the game before the last turn. I don't remember just when. Just in case anybody wants to check out the positions / conditions of the units involved.

Just clip the ".txt" off the end to make it a ".SAL" file again.

Here's the Warsaw Pact losses as of the end of turn 2: you can see that I'm getting off easy on this one.

Here is what NATO saw before it even started its second turn:

One "cherry-picking" experiment works for NATO:

---Several other air units "support" the attack---
Air units on combat support will contribute if they're in range and co-operation levels are favorable. Aircraft on air superiority will provide cover, also depending whether the're in range etc. That's why you see all those aircraft in your loss report panel

ORIGINAL: Silvanski

---Several other air units "support" the attack---
Air units on combat support will contribute if they're in range and co-operation levels are favorable. Aircraft on air superiority will provide cover, also depending whether the're in range etc. That's why you see all those aircraft in your loss report panel

I knew that, but it sure is pleasant to see when it works and a plan comes together. I finally feel like my air superiority might save my neck after the horrible ground losses at the start.

ORIGINAL: toawfan
I finally feel like my air superiority might save my neck after the horrible ground losses at the start.

Actually, it's your air superiority that has stymied my attacking. I see your planes in my combat results panels and they are doing their job believe me. I have about 1/3 more losses than you do in furballs depending on the competing aircraft types involved of course, and approx. 2.5 times the tank losses in ground entanglments and so far are the only player to lose any of my Spetznezt ( spelling ? ) units. Your dudes are delta teams and special forces dudes who train for these kind of missions at locations overseas in areas unknown to us. For a reason. Spetznezt dudes do too. Some of those guys live their days as if it were their last. For some of them it is, even in training. I wouldn't even come close to qualifying to be a member of their training classes to get to be one of them, even in the best physical shape I was ever in. It takes a special breed of dude to do what they do. When we in the game have destroyed one of those units so that we say it "evaporated" it's more like they split the team up and everybody went their separate ways so that, able to speak the language fluently in their host country, they can make their way back to the good guys land at their own speed, using whatever or whoever they can use to help them. And they are in constant training for just this technique. It's hard to surround and kill one of them. In the host country population you would never know who they are because of how well they "fit in". They might have jobs that they work at in the host country under an assumed name / number and with forged papers just to collect intelligence that can be collected in no other way. Think of them as the military equivalent of a spy with a rifle. It costs a great deal of money to train each of these 'weapons systems'. As you might imagine.

But I ramble.

Oh......and by the way. You didn't hear any of this from me.

Here's what the air war meter said when I turned on TOAW and opened Roger's turn after the playback. This spells the end of the romp through Europe and the Middle East and the loss of Serbia. In that order. Well, maybe not that order but........

EDIT: [ Turn 3's beginning ]

Roger has flown his Delta teams to the Sweden exclusion zone where I can't get at them. So.....can he move them out of there? That's the question that's been burning holes in everybody's hat.

Oh, and I was wrong about those Delta teams of Roger's. It turns out that they are Bundeswehr dudes. And Roger has landed them in the Sweden exclusion zone where I can't get at them. Still. I'm still wondering if he can move / fly them out of there.

That is a very strange display of the paratroopers. They are not out of the zone of control. They actually were nearly wiped out by you in a previous turn and I couldn't get away. They were definitely in reach.

I wonder if you attacked and they fled across that zone of control, but how, I do not know?

By the way, when I declared war on Finland in the Europe version of this scenario, the trigger never worked and I never got access to attack. I had amassed forces and then had to reassign them when it never worked after several turns.

I didn't declare war on any other faction. I wonder what will happen if and when you try.