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When and if wargames die, it won't be because of price.

It will be because of lack of knowledge and understanding of history for one. Youth can go through High School or even college and many have no idea about history even as late as WWII and the Korean war.

Maybe even more of the death would be caused by lack of attention and the need for glitz over substance. That is why video games tend to bel arcade like fast moving and graphic intensive. Too many need that to interest them and strategy gaming is just not exciting enough. A fast fix is more fun and exciting then the challenge of thinking and planning.

Today, most of my game purchases have to occur on-line. Each time I go into a software store, the PC game section is smaller and smaller with very little selection of what I consider real war games. Wi, x-box, playstation etc grows and grows.

On the other hand, it probably won't die completly. There will always be some like those of us on these forums and almost anything, no matter how small a hobby seems to be able to at least survive by creating a niche market if nothing else.

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1

There is little incentive to re invent War in the Pacific.

And yet Grigsby keeps doing it.. from his War in the South Pacific, to his Pacifc War, to his War in the Pacific.

The only reason board wargaming is still alive is because the baby boomers and the baby boomers kids are alive. Once they are gone then it will go bye bye as most kids today aren't having the large families our parents had. Population of wargamers will decrease drastically once these two generations are gone.

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

Here's my prediction : when I go to a wargame convention in 30 years time, it'll be filled with 40-year old kids

Completely agree with you, Eddy. Wargaming will not die, only the wargamers themselves will change. Right now it's our turn to support wargame developers, and we will eventually pass the baton down to the younger generation.

But not yet...

ORIGINAL: Slick Wilhelm
Wargaming will not die, only the wargamers themselves will change. Right now it's our turn to support wargame developers, and we will eventually pass the baton down to the younger generation.

Another point I'd like to annoy doomsayers with - any guesses how many pc wargames got released last year ?

47

That's about one every week and also about 5 times the number of releases of 20 years ago.

Here's the 2010 list :

Panzer General Forever
HistWar : Les Grognards
Hearts of Iron II - Arsenal of Democracy
Napoleon : Total War
Silent Hunter V
Panzer Campaigns - Sealion
Naval Campaigns - Midway
Strategic Command 2 - Global Conflict
Field of Glory - Rise of Rome
Achtung Panzer : Kharkov 1943
Theatre of War 2 - Kursk 1943
Rise of Prussia - Frederick the Great
Us and Them
Scourge of War : Gettysburg
Across the Dnepr - Second Edition
Field of Glory - Storm of Arrows
Ancient Warfare Series - Greek Wars
World War One - Gold edition
Ironclads : Schleswig War 1864
Day of the Spears II
Battles from the Bulge
First world War Campaigns - France '14
Squad Battles - Red Victory
Hearts of Iron III - Semper Fi expansion
Storm over the Pacific
WWII (outflankstrategywargames.com)
Making History 2 - The War of the World
Close Combat : Last Stand at Arnhem
Field of Glory - Immortal Fire
Hegemony : Philip of Macedon
PGX3 - European Theatre of Operations
BBC Battlefield Academy
Decisive Campaigns: The Blitzkrieg from Warsaw to Paris
Combat Mission : Afghanistan
Hannibal : Rome and Carthage
Ironclads: Chincha island war 1866
Theatre of War 2 - Battle for Caean expansion
Middle East 1948-2006
Revolution under Siege
World Supremacy
PT Boats : South Gambit
Theatre of War 2 - Battle for Caean expansion
Fields of Glory: Swords and Scimitars
Panzer Campaigns : Kharkov '43
Gary Grigsby's War in the East
Battlefield Academy - Blitzkrieg France
Squad Battles - Modern War

Wargames are doomed - my rear lower backside.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

Those were computer games Eddy we're talking about board wargames. [:'(]

ORIGINAL: E

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1

There is little incentive to re invent War in the Pacific.

And yet Grigsby keeps doing it.. from his War in the South Pacific, to his Pacifc War, to his War in the Pacific.

In the context of my comment, they are all the same game, same developer and only divided by evolution of the game, which is still the same game to some extent.

The only real difference between Watchtower, WitP and WitP AE is one has more layers added on to it. I consider it all the same game.

Pacific War is the same game as WitP in the same way Squad Leader and ASL are the same game. Now Lock and Load, that is a different game for instance from Squad Leader. And there are plenty that would tell you why play Lock n Load if you can play ASL. Aside from maybe not being able to afford ASL.

ORIGINAL: diablo1
Those were computer games Eddy we're talking about board wargames. [:'(]

Here's the list of the 250 board wargames that got published in 2010

http://grognard.com/info1/game10.html

Care to make the case that miniatures wargaming is dying. I mean, third time lucky, right ?

Those doomsayers are really funny if you know the numbers.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1
Wargaming still has a few years in it left guys.

When I went to wargame conventions as a teenager, there was nothing but really old 40+ geezers.

When I went to wargame conventions in my twenties, there was nothing but 40-year old mature guys

When I went to wargame conventions in my thirties, there was nothing but guys just slightly older than I was

When I go to a wargame convention these days, *everyone* is my age

Here's my prediction : when I go to a wargame convention in 30 years time, it'll be filled with 40-year old kids

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

Yep, you seem to have hit on the thing that keeps wargaming alive...we don't get new young blood, we get new mature players. It's almost as if we are programmed to look for more depth out of our games the older we get.

Sure I still like to play the occasional shooter...but those game last ~12 hours and then I'm off to the next adventure. With strategy and wargames, I get months or years of gameplay out of them.

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

ORIGINAL: diablo1
Those were computer games Eddy we're talking about board wargames. [:'(]

Here's the list of the 250 board wargames that got published in 2010

http://grognard.com/info1/game10.html

Care to make the case that miniatures wargaming is dying. I mean, third time lucky, right ?

Those doomsayers are really funny if you know the numbers.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

We were talking about 3D LIME GREEN army men wargames. [:D]

Here is another doomsayer.
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/01/11/pc-is-dead-ces-tablets-smartphone/

Did you know the PC is dead?

ORIGINAL: sterckxe


When I went to wargame conventions in my thirties, there was nothing but guys just slightly older than I was

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

Where do I find these "wargame conventions"? I went to Origins one year but it would be a far stretch to call it a wargame convention. Though it was great to meet the guys from Matrix and Larry Bond [:)]

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1
Wargaming still has a few years in it left guys.

When I went to wargame conventions as a teenager, there was nothing but really old 40+ geezers.

When I went to wargame conventions in my twenties, there was nothing but 40-year old mature guys

When I went to wargame conventions in my thirties, there was nothing but guys just slightly older than I was

When I go to a wargame convention these days, *everyone* is my age

Here's my prediction : when I go to a wargame convention in 30 years time, it'll be filled with 40-year old kids

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

Most conventions I attended back in the late 1970's/early 1980's were being overwhelmed with D&D. Then later it started to be Axis and Allies all the kids were playing. Then and to some extent still, there were hordes of kids playing that dumb @ssed card game, Magic the Gathering. (Said exactly like a rotten old man says things about 'these kids today').

Then it was Warhammer 40k. Then came console games, which really appeal to a different crowd but still have some of the same elements we see in our end of the hobby.

Some of those kids are going to crossover to the more serious and involved stuff, most are not.

The hobby is still open at the lower end and I'd say thriving, especially when you consider console games.

Boardgaming may be non existent among young people but strategy games are not. I went to a fairly large public university but we had several tabletop gaming groups that were very active.
I was never a hardcore D&D player but I did play some. I was very active in Warhammer 40k and Battlefleet Gothic.

They were active enough that you could get together and build/paint or play any night of the week that you wanted. There were also enough players that even the lesser known armies would have scores of players.

Those games are every bit as detailed and board wargames. Just require different tastes.

In my opinion D&D is still easier to grasp than WiF.

Here is another article about the future of simulations.
http://www.simhq.com/_commentary/all_106a.html

ORIGINAL: E

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1

There is little incentive to re invent War in the Pacific.

And yet Grigsby keeps doing it.. from his War in the South Pacific, to his Pacifc War, to his War in the Pacific.

And Bethesda has made Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion with another Elder Scrolls game coming this Fall. They are all the same and they still have a large fan base.

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1

ORIGINAL: E

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1
There is little incentive to re invent War in the Pacific.

And yet Grigsby keeps doing it.. from his War in the South Pacific, to his Pacifc War, to his War in the Pacific.

In the context of my comment, they are all the same game, same developer and only divided by evolution of the game, which is still the same game to some extent.

Tomatoe, Tomahto. Should I throw in Grigsby's Guadalcanal Campaign and his Carrier Strike? My point is that he keeps doing the theater/game. Although I can understand your point of view on them being the same game. In one essence they are. In another they are not (although I do not kid myself into believing he re-researched all the unit data for each game *grin*). Now your point about aging and where that leads is sadly right on the money.

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1
The only real difference between Watchtower, WitP and WitP AE is one has more layers added on to it. I consider it all the same game. Pacific War is the same game as WitP in the same way Squad Leader and ASL are the same game.

Now I never got into ASL, but I know that it is not the same as SL. One is apparently a way of life, while the other is a dying game. *grin*

But let's be honest and put this all in perspective... how many of you* could play every board and pc wargame you own, before you die? And if you did run out, did you like any enough to play them a second time? And after you've worn yourself out from all the wargames you have, can you still get someone to wheel your chair to the gaming table? Can you still see the gaming table? And do you even realize the game on it is not dinner with a cardboard taste? Do you know your grandchildren and/or their children's names? *grin*

* -I know there is at least one younger one here, but he doesn't seem to play board wargames.

However, if you really want to get some new blood in the board wargaming industry, think "power outages." ...Long ones. *grin*

In my opinion D&D is still easier to grasp than WiF.

Welcome to my Dojo little fly! [:D]

I'd just like to take this time to tha....


DOOOOOMMM!!!!111

The End Is Nigh!!!


[:'(]