Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: CheerfullyInsane

ORIGINAL: KGrob

At this point, I'm not sure if it's better to try to take ground or to simply focus on encirclement and destruction of Soviet units.

It seems as though I could capture a lot of territory up north. But it also seems like I may be able to encircle some large groups of Soviets in the center and south regions.

In the CG, kill Russians. Then kill more Russians.
While capturing ground is nice for ones ego, the Russian replacement-rate is terrifying.
The consensus is that you'll need to have inflicted 4+ million casualties before December to stand a half-decent chance of surviving the blizzard.
The only real exception is Leningrad. If you want to capture that, you'll need to push hard.
You'll probably also need to take the ports to the east of it, cutting off its supply.

Wow. To kill 4 million men by Winter. A tall task.

Question: Is there a way to bomb enemy railways? I don't see that option in the air mission choice.

I've had a couple really good chances to circle some huge enemy concentrations...but they have been largely slipping out. The only way I can think of that they are escaping is by rail. It doesn't seem as though some of those units could be moving as fast otherwise.

I guess in CITY BOMBING you can bomb railyards

This would only subtract from the RAIL CAP given per turn and wouldn't achieve very much

ORIGINAL: KGrob

Question: Is there a way to bomb enemy railways? I don't see that option in the air mission choice.

I've had a couple really good chances to circle some huge enemy concentrations...but they have been largely slipping out. The only way I can think of that they are escaping is by rail. It doesn't seem as though some of those units could be moving as fast otherwise.

A zone of control from one of your units will block rail movement.

ORIGINAL: Mynok

ORIGINAL: KGrob

Question: Is there a way to bomb enemy railways? I don't see that option in the air mission choice.

I've had a couple really good chances to circle some huge enemy concentrations...but they have been largely slipping out. The only way I can think of that they are escaping is by rail. It doesn't seem as though some of those units could be moving as fast otherwise.

A zone of control from one of your units will block rail movement.

Thanks. Man...these guys should pay you for your contributions...they have helped me enormously.

But my concern is for something before then. Consider this situation.

I had two armored spearheads punch through the lines, one south of Kiev and one north of Kiev...and they were closing the gap on the back side of Kiev. I had a massive soviet army between the two pincers...they were beat up pretty badly in some instances, lots of routed Soviets, etc. And then when I was almost ready to seal the gap, nearly all of them disappeared.

All that remained on the back side was ONE rail line out of the pocket that wasn't in my zone of control. In a well coordinated combined arms attack, I would have been bombing the crap out of that railway (and roads, and bridges, and trucks, and any other means of escape)...I mean, I would have been bombing those tracks every single day.

The very next turn, I'm sure I would have completed the enclosure...but the encircled units had all but disappeared...except for three or four defenders, they had all moved out of the pocket.

Not having the option to bomb the rails in that situation is distressing...especially since that sort of interdiction was an important part of strategy.

One thing I didn't try though is "city" bombing. I'll load up a two player game and play both sides so i can test and see if that is a viable alternative to railway interdiction.

There is nothing worse than an "almost closed" pocket...
 
Well, there is something worse, the first winter, but I get ahead of myself.

Yep. The more important question you should be asking yourself, KGrob is: what could I have done differently to close that pocket.

ORIGINAL: cookie monster

I guess in CITY BOMBING you can bomb railyards

This would only subtract from the RAIL CAP given per turn and wouldn't achieve very much

I just now did a test where I played both sides and conducted a CITY BOMBING test. As the Germans, I bombed 8 cities of various sizes with various numbers and types of bomber aircraft. In seven cases, I had a single choice, which was to bomb manpower. In all eight cases, I took that choice.

NONE of the hexes took any rail damage. It didn't seem to matter which type of combat aircraft I sent, the number of aircraft didn't seem to matter, nor did the size of the city. NOTHING seemed to work.

Wow.

It could be that I did something wrong. I will try this again on larger cities where more bombing options exist but I would really like to see an improvement in the game bombing options here.

ORIGINAL: KGrob

ORIGINAL: cookie monster

I guess in CITY BOMBING you can bomb railyards

This would only subtract from the RAIL CAP given per turn and wouldn't achieve very much

I just now did a test where I played both sides and conducted a CITY BOMBING test. As the Germans, I bombed 8 cities of various sizes with various numbers and types of bomber aircraft. In seven cases, I had a single choice, which was to bomb manpower. In all eight cases, I took that choice.

NONE of the hexes took any rail damage. It didn't seem to matter which type of combat aircraft I sent, the number of aircraft didn't seem to matter, nor did the size of the city. NOTHING seemed to work.

Wow.

It could be that I did something wrong. I will try this again on larger cities where more bombing options exist but I would really like to see an improvement in the game bombing options here.

Are you sure you chose cities to bomb?

They are highly likely to have railyards present.

On p70 of the ebook it shows all of moscow's targets available.

Okay, I just bombed four more larger cities where "Rail" is an actual choice. Again, I tried different types and numbers of bombers.

BUT...

Again, NONE, of the rail in those cities showed any damage. I'm wondering what I could be doing wrong.

Here's how I'm doing it: I sign into the game, set both sides to HUMAN. I then play as the German and I bomb the targets. Then I end the turn. And when my Russian turn comes up, no damage is showing. Could I be doing something wrong here in my interpretation (or the process) of how I'm looking at this?

ORIGINAL: cookie monster

ORIGINAL: KGrob

ORIGINAL: cookie monster

I guess in CITY BOMBING you can bomb railyards

This would only subtract from the RAIL CAP given per turn and wouldn't achieve very much

I just now did a test where I played both sides and conducted a CITY BOMBING test. As the Germans, I bombed 8 cities of various sizes with various numbers and types of bomber aircraft. In seven cases, I had a single choice, which was to bomb manpower. In all eight cases, I took that choice.

NONE of the hexes took any rail damage. It didn't seem to matter which type of combat aircraft I sent, the number of aircraft didn't seem to matter, nor did the size of the city. NOTHING seemed to work.

Wow.

It could be that I did something wrong. I will try this again on larger cities where more bombing options exist but I would really like to see an improvement in the game bombing options here.

Are you sure you chose cities to bomb?

They are highly likely to have railyards present.

On p70 of the ebook it shows all of moscow's targets available.

Yes, they were all "named" cities of various sizes although I'll concede most were very small which I selected because a target I need to bomb may be just a small target...as was the case in my near Kiev encirclement above.

I marked the coordinates and then examined them in the next players turn.

Per the above, you'll see I ran a second test on four much larger cities...but this time I intentionally targeted "Rail" and I got the same exact result...no damage to the rails.

ORIGINAL: cookie monster

ORIGINAL: KGrob

ORIGINAL: cookie monster

I guess in CITY BOMBING you can bomb railyards

This would only subtract from the RAIL CAP given per turn and wouldn't achieve very much

I just now did a test where I played both sides and conducted a CITY BOMBING test. As the Germans, I bombed 8 cities of various sizes with various numbers and types of bomber aircraft. In seven cases, I had a single choice, which was to bomb manpower. In all eight cases, I took that choice.

NONE of the hexes took any rail damage. It didn't seem to matter which type of combat aircraft I sent, the number of aircraft didn't seem to matter, nor did the size of the city. NOTHING seemed to work.

Wow.

It could be that I did something wrong. I will try this again on larger cities where more bombing options exist but I would really like to see an improvement in the game bombing options here.

Are you sure you chose cities to bomb?

They are highly likely to have railyards present.

On p70 of the ebook it shows all of moscow's targets available.

I see that. But that is part of my concern.

Only a few larger cities actually offer the choice to bomb "railyard" targets. However, railroads exist in many places other than major cities.

just because it's got a name doesnt mean its a city

The graphic for a city is there

For towns its a dot

What was the damage reported in the combat window on the bomb city air mission?

ORIGINAL: cookie monster

just because it's got a name doesnt mean its a city
The graphic for a city is there

For towns its a dot

What was the damage reported in the combat window on the bomb city air mission?

Well, when I press the "bomb city" button, all the targets get highlighted as if they are cities...so I'm not the one calling them cities...it's the game's own algorithm that is referring to them as cities. I have to assume that when I press the button, that a collection of homes and businesses will show up and collectively, for this one purpose, the gamer refers to that as a "city." Similarly, when I bomb "airfields" the game itself will highlight airfields...I don't know if they are atually airports, air strips, runways, or whatever...if it highlights and I can bomb it, for that specific purpose, it is an airfield.

The only damage I remember seeing was something like "the city was bombed" or something to that effect. Of course, it shows the number of aircraft lost on each side as well.

I even tried bombing military units sitting on railways such as bunkers, HQ, and so forth to see if I could get some damage to the underlying tracks. No cigar there either.

Yes it may highlighted towns as well

The user interface is not perfect

ORIGINAL: cookie monster

just because it's got a name doesnt mean its a city

The graphic for a city is there

For towns its a dot

What was the damage reported in the combat window on the bomb city air mission?

It's a really generic statement that appears. "The city was bombed." And that's about it.

You can bomb rail capacity in cities, but not the rail itself. Rail is only broken by control change and partisans.

Just curious....are you using panzers or infantry to create your breakthroughs? One common noob mistake I see (and have done) is to use my panzers to make holes in the enemy's lines. This is wrong. You want infantry for that. Then panzers move through to create pockets.

ORIGINAL: cookie monster

Yes it may highlighted towns as well

The user interface is not perfect

The "cities" I bombed were quite a range of sizes...from little "level 1" up to Kiev and Minsk.

ORIGINAL: Mynok


You can bomb rail capacity in cities, but not the rail itself. Rail is only broken by control change and partisans.

Just curious....are you using panzers or infantry to create your breakthroughs? One common noob mistake I see (and have done) is to use my panzers to make holes in the enemy's lines. This is wrong. You want infantry for that. Then panzers move through to create pockets.

I use everything I have initially, in the first turn or two or three (or whatever). I usually bring up the furthest units from the rear first and get them attacking. That way I can advance my units that began the turn closest (or next) to the enemy the furthest into his territory.

But when it starts looking like I might be able to actually seal the gap, I do as you suggest, I try to use my slowest guys and save my fastest movers so they can seal the final distance.

Obviously, I still have some room for improvement.

Sadly, I'm sort of bummed out after hearing I can't bomb railways...that's an important military tactic/strategy.