Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

You would have a flat map because CC is 2d.

There is elevation data in CC, as can be seen in the visualization I did for CC4 eons ago.

It is no problem to convert this data into a heightfield bitmap.

Best regards,
Thomm

ORIGINAL: Thomm

... as can be seen in the visualization I did for CC4 eons ago.

Hmmm. That direct link does not seem to work.

The CC4 images can be found here:

http://www.fortunecity.com/olympia/simpson/870/

Best regards,
Thomm

ORIGINAL: HintJ

Man the implications are amazing! Any game, whether it is a computer or tabletop game that I can get a top-down screenshot of can be inside the game! The real work would be the elevation and objects.

MR talks about ASL maps, so why doesn't someone just scan an ASL map (complete w/hexes for cosmetic reasons) put buildings and trees over the tops of those hexes containing them, do the elevations, and play PC on it?! It would be more a novelty, but still fun for those that want it.

I'm thinking whoever owns the copyrights would be upset.

No need to scan hexes and all. A map grid comes standard in PCO.

Good Hunting.

MR

ORIGINAL: Mobius

If you can now make something a lot better why go back?

Its would be a fun novelty, partly nostalgic, and not something I'd plan to use every time I play the game.

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

I went to the COI forum to find a map zip to give it a try for you. I picked one of the Omaha mod maps. There are no graphic files in it that I can see. I have the original CC2 and CC5.

I'm planning to take multiple screen shots from within the CC game and combine them afterwards in Paint.net for a total map.

ORIGINAL: Thomm


It is no problem to convert this data into a heightfield bitmap.

I was planning on just hand painting the elevations, but I may ask for some help if it doesn't work right.

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian


No need to scan hexes and all. A map grid comes standard in PCO.

The point behind the hexes would be to make the game look like a board game, but play like PC. Imagine making a 2K x 2K map of the Monopoly game board that looks exactly like the real game Monopoly, complete with some simple green and red houses and there were dice on it and so on . . . But you were playing a game of Panzer Command on it.

That's an absurd example, I know, but my point is literally having maps from other games, and playing Panzer Command on it.

ORIGINAL: HintJ

The point behind the hexes would be to make the game look like a board game, but play like PC. ... . . But you were playing a game of Panzer Command on it.

That's an absurd example, I know, but my point is literally having maps from other games, and playing Panzer Command on it.

At one point I had one of the SL layouts done. It may have been eitehr Hill 621, or HH at Peipsk. I didn't put hexes on the main map, but I did keep them on the mini-map. In fact I used the SL maps for the minimap. For the main playing map, I converted the map to PCO standards and hand painted the eleveations using the heightmap sculpting tools.

Natrually this won't be in the release, and I haven't worked on it for quite a while. After release I may try to dig it up and get it updated to latest map standards.

thanks
rick

Back in my CC days I had the Pacific mod for CC2 and the Okinawa mod for CC5. Been a long time since I messed with CC files. I thought there might be some tga graphics to look at.

Upload a zip with the pasted screenshot and I'll see what I can do with it.

Here's a very rough start. The CC3 maps are around 520 M wide but not quite 400 M high. I Stretched if for now. Definitely needs some cleaning, but still a rough idea for a starting point.

I'll see what I can do. There is a lot of detail there. Can you turn off trees and shadows? If not, I may have to paint over those areas and it may not look as pretty.

What is the yellow terrain?

I updated it w/out trees, but still has shadows. Don't worry if its messy or what not. I'll see what I can do when I get my hands on the map maker. That yellow stuff is tall grass, I think.

Got it. May be this weekend.

ORIGINAL: HintJ

I was planning on just hand painting the elevations, but I may ask for some help if it doesn't work right.

I am not familiar with the PC:O editor, but from what I gained by reading the various posts it should be entirely possible to transfer both elevation data *and* terrain type (including grass, mud, even trees) from CC to PC:O, perhaps with only a few hours of programming.

Did I understand correctly that you can import your own terrain texture (for the whole map) in PC:O?? If that is the case, one could make very faithful reconstructions of CC maps in PC:O, indeed.

Best regards,
Thomm

ORIGINAL: Thomm

ORIGINAL: HintJ

I was planning on just hand painting the elevations, but I may ask for some help if it doesn't work right.

I am not familiar with the PC:O editor, but from what I gained by reading the various posts it should be entirely possible to transfer both elevation data *and* terrain type (including grass, mud, even trees) from CC to PC:O, perhaps with only a few hours of programming.

Did I understand correctly that you can import your own terrain texture (for the whole map) in PC:O?? If that is the case, one could make very faithful reconstructions of CC maps in PC:O, indeed.

Best regards,
Thomm

Well, I'm not familiar w/the editor either, but from my understanding of the tutorial and what Rick said, once you complete the ground terrain texture, the editor combines all the different ground textures into a single .dds file, and that can be hand edited. Theoretically, a designer could just hand paint the whole map, and import a single texture into the editor. I don't see why I couldn't just directly copy a CC map over the .dds file created by the map maker.

There will be, I'm sure, some problems w/CC maps. The scale, for example: In CC3 none of the maps are an exact 500 square meters, leading to stretching/squashing issues. Also, the resolution would create a very bizarre pixelated view close to ground level.

One possible solution for the would be to make the CC maps 1000^2 Km. This would help w/the pixelations caused by smashing the pixels into 500^2, but the map features would be around 2 times bigger.

Whatever option is chosen, if the elevation data is also imported, it would have to be somehow stretched or compressed at the same rate.


Of course, all of this is conjecture w/out having the map maker yet. For example, I know that in the terrain data (whether a point on the map is a road or forest) is at a 1 meter = 1 pixel scale, but I don't know if this applies also directly to the textures themselves. This point is critical in whether a CC map looks attractive enough to import directly or whether a translated CC map done w/textures taken directly from CC will look better than a map simply imported.

This is something I'm definitely going to experiment w/when the game comes out.

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

Got it. May be this weekend.

Actually J2D, I would hold off on that for now, but go ahead and try if you want to and you have the time. The thing is, I'm still experimenting w/the best way to capture the screen. I'm sort of reaching in the dark w/out a copy of the map maker.

Let me ask you this though: Is the final .dds texture file created by the map maker a 1 pixel per meter, like the terrain data, or could I create better resolution map by chopping it up and pasting various textures?

So, I re-read the editor threads, or at least some of them.

Conclusion:

The terrain bitmap that makes CC so pretty is of little use, because it cannot be displayed directly in PC:O.

BUT:

Both the terrain elevation data and the terrain tile type data can be very easily converted into bitmaps (I should have code ready for this) that can be re-imported into the PC:O map editor.

And since the resolution of PC:O (1 m) is twice that of CC (2 m) the conversion should be quite successful.

Best regards,
Thomm

You can capture the screen anyway you like. When you're done all you have to do is resize your file to fit the size of the map you're making. If you need any adjustments after that you can use editing software to touch up the file.

I let MM create a terrain map but I generally go in and change every pixel to suit myself. Your picture/photo/topo map can be the end result or the starting place for your map.

Good Hunting.

MR

ORIGINAL: HintJ

........ For example, I know that in the terrain data (whether a point on the map is a road or forest) is at a 1 meter = 1 pixel scale, but I don't know if this applies also directly to the textures themselves. This point is critical in whether a CC map looks attractive enough to import directly or whether a translated CC map done w/textures taken directly from CC will look better than a map simply imported.
...

Actually, the final texture dds (called a megatexture) is not a 1:1 scale. (I think Map Maker creates this at a ~4:1 scale). The underlying terrain map itself (map.bmp) is still on the 1:1 scale. Of course, it's pretty important that the two maps allign correctly. And one thing to keep in mind is that the size of this .dds file directly affects performance in the game.

I'm anxious to see what some of you folks do with Map Maker. It sounds like we will see some nice looking maps coming out.

Thanks
rick

Thomm, any DDS file that fits within the square format will work once you build the "megatexture". These are of a set of standard sizes that are quite large (I can't recall off the top of my head what they are).

You can basically draw/cut and paste into any image that you can think of. Something like a winding road, sidewalk or path can be rendered with all of the arcs and non-jagged edges that you would see in real life. This should follow the underlying, color-coded map that the game engine uses somewhat- but it provides some great degree of freedom in the end result. I would say it's quite a bit like making a CC map texture, but in 3D.

ORIGINAL: benpark

Thomm, any DDS file that fits within the square format will work once you build the "megatexture". These are of a set of standard sizes that are quite large (I can't recall off the top of my head what they are).

You can basically draw/cut and paste into any image that you can think of. Something like a winding road, sidewalk or path can be rendered with all of the arcs and non-jagged edges that you would see in real life. This should follow the underlying, color-coded map that the game engine uses somewhat- but it provides some great degree of freedom in the end result. I would say it's quite a bit like making a CC map texture, but in 3D.

Very, very good news! J2D, definitely do not use that file I posted. If I understand this correctly, as long as I have a squared .dds file, the texture will set correctly. On a 500M map, I hope that a 1000 pixel .dds wouldn't be much of a performance hit.

ORIGINAL: Thomm

So, I re-read the editor threads, or at least some of them.

Conclusion:

The terrain bitmap that makes CC so pretty is of little use, because it cannot be displayed directly in PC:O.

BUT:

Both the terrain elevation data and the terrain tile type data can be very easily converted into bitmaps (I should have code ready for this) that can be re-imported into the PC:O map editor.

And since the resolution of PC:O (1 m) is twice that of CC (2 m) the conversion should be quite successful.

Best regards,
Thomm

Excellent! Could it create one of those grey-scale looking things, and would you be willing to post/share the code?

ORIGINAL: Hint

JExcellent! Could it create one of those grey-scale looking things, and would you be willing to post/share the code?

In principle, yes.

I did not touch these things for some years now. I am pretty sure that I still have the source code somewhere.

It may take weeks until I get to this. I am severely overcommitted at the moment.

Of course it would help if there was an editor guide available. I still do not really understand what all those files do.

Best regards,
Thomm