Matrix Games Forums

Why put it on random? That will give you the chance to have an easy game.

I followed instruction to make the hardest possible game before. If you think that you have a better 'Harsh environment' I can possibly even try it out. The point is not proficiency, the point is a curiously efficient strategy.

Hardest imaginable game?
 
Big Galaxy
Chaos
Slow research
A lot of pirates
A lot of space creatures
Independancies High
Colonies Prevelance High
19 Empires
Harsh start
High Corruption
Human
Corporate Nationalism
 
You say the settings above make it easy? Never played Corporate Nationalism before? The research fo you will be 1/5 of your real max dying down to that point, your development and SoI will be stuck at 50% + bonus and you will be fucking angry, that everyone gets colonies but you.
 
You better prepare to conquer quick and abondon reputation or your system will degenerate to a 50% development low research and corruptive pulp.

Could also add having galactic and all other empires at maximum expansion and tech level 7 while you are at starting in both. But that would just be silly. [:D]

I'm starting to fall in love with the "Abundant" setting for Colonies. It makes the early game easier for you, but also for your enemies.

Many people have this idea that by taking away global resources, you are going to make the AI better. Unfortunately, the AIs problems usually stem from not knowing how to best manage limited resources. By setting colonies to abundant, everyone gets a significant boost. An AI Empire with over 100 colonies almost 150 years after game-start is pretty scary. Also, the Shakturi are scarier than usual on Abundant colonies due to their little starting refugee empire having some real density at times.

In short, by increasing global values, you are giving yourself more of a challenge than decreasing them.

The same goes with distance. The large galaxy sizes are usually good for the human player because the AI just can't handle the fuel issues arising due to larger distances.

However, much of the challenge is the broad administrative span of control involved in running 100 rather than 10-20 colony worlds. The AI does not find this more difficult, but it is wearing on the player. I think approaches giving the AI a resource edge or tech edge or financial edge are going to be more manageable and enjoyable. Admittedly, I am still not clear 100% on which settings in the game only affect the AI or only affect the player.

ORIGINAL: Keston

However, much of the challenge is the broad administrative span of control involved in running 100 rather than 10-20 colony worlds. The AI does not find this more difficult, but it is wearing on the player. I think approaches giving the AI a resource edge or tech edge or financial edge are going to be more manageable and enjoyable. Admittedly, I am still not clear 100% on which settings in the game only affect the AI or only affect the player.

I agree, which is why pre-legends I tended to play smaller maps. Thanks to Fleet Posturing, however, it is now much easier to manage a massive empire at a glance. Throw in the human edge in ship design, and you still have a significant advantage. Only one game has ever made 99% of its players feel that the AI is truly trying to kill you through the screen, and that game is AI War: Fleet Command.

All you have to do is look at the hundreds of different ways that game was tailored specifically to be challenging, and you begin to realize just how hard it is to create a competitive AI. Especially when the playing field begins level, which is the biggest barrier--something AI War overcame by abandoning the level playing field completely.

ORIGINAL: Nedrear

Hardest imaginable game?

Big Galaxy
Chaos
Slow research
A lot of pirates
A lot of space creatures
Independancies High
Colonies Prevelance High
19 Empires
Harsh start
High Corruption
Human
Corporate Nationalism

Corporate nationalism is not a bad start is bad playing.
I can start with it but I will change it as soon as possible.
I can safely imagine that if you do not play in a sensible way the game can be difficult.

What I am saying in this thread is that it do not matter the starting condition.

I am saying that with the correct strategy it is strangely simple to win.

If you say that using another strategy winning is more difficult I am not really impressed and it is a little outside the scope of the discussion.

Said that, as soon as possible, I will try a game with this starting environment and I will tell what happens.

BTW you are sure that humans are the worst possible race for this experiment?

You say the settings above make it easy? Never played Corporate Nationalism before? The research fo you will be 1/5 of your real max dying down to that point, your development and SoI will be stuck at 50% + bonus and you will be fucking angry, that everyone gets colonies but you.

You better prepare to conquer quick and abondon reputation or your system will degenerate to a 50% development low research and corruptive pulp.

Thanks for the tips but the point was to try my strategy against an harsh environment.

Changing goverment is an exploit! THE CORPORATION would never let itself get destroyed. It OWNS you.
 
Play CN from start to victory or you are just playing the same as always with a different starting goverment. That is no challenge!
 
You start with the CN and you will use it to the bitter end!

You are really funny. [8|]

BTW I always thought that a Big Galaxy was simplifying the game, not making it more difficult.

19 empire are also a gift, you can almost win with everything in automatic.

Still think that you should have proposed another race, maybe someone with diplomatic disadvantages.

I would be interested in seeing how you go giving all the other empires a two or three level tech head start and playing a race without a racial tech. I think some of the players on this forum would not have a problem winning from such a siuation regularly using other strategies. It should be doable but interesting. Really this is the appropriate 'harsh' setting for the 'spammer' strategy. Harsh homeworld and smaller expansion than the computer empires will also add a tech rate disadvantage at first. Very expensive tech will also increase the time it takes you to get your first tech or two to trade. If you manage to do it with a three tech disadvantage, try four...

On expensive tech, the value of tech is so high that you can completely fund your economy off of it. The flip side, however, is that the AI seems to do the same. Pair that with the economy bonus they get on Hard difficulty and its pretty neat.

Yes. For the spammer strategy I think normal difficulty will be the hardest. The point of expensive tech though is to slow a spammer down from getting into the trading game in the first place. Last game I played 999k tech so going for the Hi Tech wonder the first tech was just under 4000k. It took me 8 years to get that as my first tech and it was only level 2 (and I emphasised hi tech labs...). If you have to go to level three to get into the trading game you will be waiting well over a decade, maybe more like two depending on other settings (race/government plus lab balance).

Not really. For me, the point of expensive tech is to slow down the game. In DW it works very nicely by limiting the amount of colonies that each race can colonize in a short period of time. With the Borders in Legends, this is a pretty neat and viable way to play.

The only real penalty to tech trading is that the AI gets your tech, and since it's worth so much on "Very Expensive" that isn't enough incentive to overcome the money you can make. On the other hand, on a very large galaxy with abundant colonies, very expensive research, and a Hard or Very Hard difficulty setting, and other empires set to Young or better, you will find yourself having to spend very far into the red just to survive and compete, meaning tech trading becomes necesarry. I haven't gotten far enough yet in my scenario to see if tech trading is going to bite me in the rear-end later, but I suspect that the probably won't make me pay for it. Instead, I expect the challenge to come from sheer numbers, since on Abundant Colonies, Very Slow Tech, and Hard+ Difficulty, the AI has loads of cash to spend.

The computer having loads of cash to spend makes it easier to sell tech (well, at least to get money for it...). Not sure I understand your point about incentive though - doesn't the ratio of tech to money remain the same and hence the cost/benefit analysis equal? [&:]

ORIGINAL: feelotraveller

The computer having loads of cash to spend makes it easier to sell tech (well, at least to get money for it...). Not sure I understand your point about incentive though - doesn't the ratio of tech to money remain the same and hence the cost/benefit analysis equal? [&:]

Yes. Which is why I'm trying to find other ways to give the computer an advantage, without having to gimp yourself too much. Using the above settings, even if you engage in tech trading liberally (and you'll likely have to, if you get a bad start), the AI can at least have oodles of money to spend. The AI engages in tech trading too, and when tech is expensive they make more money off of it as well. Combine that with Hard or Very Hard, and you have a recipe for AI that trades more tech than you do, theoretically. All of this with a Very Expensive setting means that it never gets out of hand, because tech is hard to come by in the first place.

Certainly not a universal solution by any means, but definitely a scenario option that I find alleviates many of the problems inherant with tech trading AND an AI that has trouble making good decisions with limited funds.