Matrix Games Forums

Distant Worlds and ROTS was my personal game of the year for 2010. With this in mind, here are some critiques and thoughts for the future:
Some original gaming decisions were superseded by IMO weaker decisions, so
Reintroduce planet colonisation as a racial type,taking colonisation out of the tech tree and, perhaps, replacing it with terraforming techs (ie the ability to terraform planets close to your racial type). Planet quality would then be a specific racial construct, and something that can be improved with terraforming (planet quality itself needs to be looked at – the $ penalties for colonising a low quality planet need to be punative or not allowed). The addition of other races to your empire now has a more strategic purpose. (also let migration reflect racial planet preferences). As a mitigation, colonisation can only happen if the mining station has been destroyed first (ie mining stations now claim colonisation rights)
Find another 'deterrent' mechanism for trading apart from $. The introduction of ridiculous $ amounts skews the game to the benefit of the player. It would be better if trading was dictated by racial traits and perceptions. It's important to keep the $ in the game realistic.
The previous research base system felt better. The current one (multiple sites easily defended at home planet, starports etc) skews to the player. Suggest a return to research bases only being built at research points that are strategically vulnerable (and make research stations expensive to avoid spamming) . The capital planet of each race could start as a %research point that reflects their racial and government outlook (ie a % +/- bonus to the 3 lines of research that reflects specific culture)
As a 4x, DW has a great first eXplore and eXpand, but is notionally narratively weaker in eXploit and eXterminate. Suggest that resources become more strategic – my initial thought was to have a resource slider, but now i've moved onto resource/tech/racial traits, and a distribution of resources on the basis of planet types. The philosophy would be you can only research a tech if you already possess the required resources – whilst this may sound skewed, it simply means that you think timber if you live next to a forest. Thus races will have techs predicated on the resources of their planet type, and in order to research other areas that are not within their culture, they have to source the resources first. At the end point, something like Korrabian Spice is not just valuable in and of itself, it is valuable as a key component in a rare tech (let's say in engines that fold space), and you need to have some for research before you can research the tech: better tech require rarer resources that force you to compete for these resources. How this pans out with the tech tree etc is probably beyond me and this discussion, but you could conceivably have a general tech tree which is racially biased via resources. It will also make tech trading more interesting as races will have different techs (possibly that may do the same thing better or worse eg wooden javelin, aluminium javelin)
The game could have less battle ships, and I'm thinking that they should be more expensive to build and maintain. I'm also thinking that the storyline has wrecks, but the player can't create them, so wondering whether player battles leave wrecks that can be salvaged (some kind of system whereby ships types can only be destroyed by the next higher type). This would be good for the scavenger racial type. In terms of balance, it might be good if you can only fix a hull for which you have technology for? Towing large wrecks to your home planet till such time as you can repair them (or go for a research points in that hull tech for scrapping it).
There's more, I'm sure, but brain has ceased to function.
Stevil

That's also a good idea, Facedrop. Welcome to the forum, nice to see another one coming out of the shadows [:)]

ORIGINAL: Facedrop

Hi long time forum lurker here
I would just like to say that i like the idea of moving planets, but another less complicated way a race like this could be implemented is through a race being mostly nomadic that travels in a great fleet complete with mother ships that act like planets. They could be somewhat similar to that race in the mass effect universe, not sure what the name was but they lived in one massive fleet and had no home planet.

YAY expansion!

Ye be talking about Quarians.
I agree. A race that lives only in cold vacuum of space would be very interesting and different addition to any 4X game. Quarians, already mentioned, and Bentusi from Homeworld series are good examples that I know.

The only real problem is balancing this kind of race. DW is currently SP only so balancing would be a bit easier.
AI would be other thing that would probably cause issues.

Apart from that, we concur 100%.

Facedrops idea is plain awesome. Things like this would be cool additions to the game. That or races like the Asgaurd in Stargate. Were they have incredibly advanced technology, but they cant reproduce very fast or build ships fast or something. That would be restricted by population and would be slow growing and be restricted from taking other populations when they conquer planets.

This one may be kind of weird but abilities to make races like the zerg or Tyranids would be cool. But I think it would be neat to have an organic form of life that could infest and assimilate population bodies.

On some more basic levels specialized weaponry and Ashberys ideas are great.

This one might be a little weird but I thought it would be kind of cool. Perhaps if their was a way to make a race similar to the Klingons in startrek. It doesn't have to be deep in the form of interacting with houses, but having regular civil wars for the throne and other internal issues to work out often would be neat.

This is just a lot of random ideas that came to mind.

Thats right the Quarians its all coming back to me now.

Another thing i would like to see is just generally each race having a somewhat different tech tree. This would help bring about more varied game play from game to game .

iirc only twilight of the arnor got that rather properly

ORIGINAL:  zzqxztc
How about a race ,they have some advanced technology . Using technology ...their planet be transformed.. they put engine on planet..
(like Death star)so that the palnet has ability of movement..
they have no fixed galaxies as their home.
this race wandered around in the universe
.....just like nomads ..'universe nomads '
of course,we can also imagine this race other interesting abilities.
(i am a chinese .my english is not good.. my expression may be not clear..)

thanks ,Data...

I think I can supplement my ideas.
I suddenly thought that since this race have such high technology and mobility.
But they can be easily limited in game.

as Seath said..

the key is 'sun'.
the race has a little artificial sun moves around their planet ,supply their planet energy.
So they can wander in the universe everywhere.
But once destroyed their sun.
(it is easier than destroyed their planet ,the sun is little.)
they could stay in a galaxy to build their new 'little sun'.
If they move away from the star without their 'sun'.Their population will down sharply. Their planet will be frozen and its quality decline sharply.

More over, i think this race can not colonize other planet .(or difficult colonize) their most planet must be bulit .they bulid their planet.

sf has lots of tech that allows a population to live on planets without suns or in other harsh conditions but this part of the storyline as you describe it can be adapted to the mechanoids....but then again they are already limited in this respect

data there are no planets without a sun in our galaxy. Each planet or moon is around a sun

Yap, that's why I've said that SF (science fiction) has them [:)]
also, not to be pedantic but we do know only a tiny part of our universe; who knows what wonders are out there....besides dominators and dark force and such

When you say "characteristics", what I'd like to see is opponents with more personality.
 
One typical aspect of classic games is the ability to emotionally involve the player. In MOO1, I hated the Bulrathi and their big ships and their compulsion to attack you as soon as they find you. I haven't played in15-20 years, but I still can taste the hatred. In Alpha Centauri, I hated Yang and Miriam and Santiago and their bullying ways that worked counter to the way I liked to play. Wiping them out was always satisfying. Conversely, I was always glad to be by Diedre or Morgan because they were generally friendly and easy allies. In Civ, there are leaders it is a pleasure to defeat, and others that make good friends. Currently in DW, as in many very good but not quite great games, there are just slightly more/less annoying opponents.
 
Every race should have a nemesis race (or two or three) and a race or two that is an almost automatic, reliable friend. These could vary by race. There could be aliens that randomly make diplomatic decisions (they are aliens; who knows why they do these things). As mentioned before, this is a SP game so balanced races may be less important than flavor (and ability to tailor the challenge to your desired level, but that is off topic).

We concur.

Still, The races in DW have attitudes towards each other. Humanoids like each other, can work with rodents, hate insects etc.
The problem is that there's no unique dialogue to represent the differences; You get the same dialogue from Dhayuut when you are playing Kiadian or
Boskara. Also, penalties and bonuses from attitudes should be much more significant. Now you can easily buy friendship even from your worst imaginable nemesis.

The Alpha Centauri is indeed great example as every faction has unique dialogue when dealing with other factions. One of the reasons I love that game.

Off-topic: Oh, and Miriam and Santiago are uppity jerks! In my current game as University, Pravin and Deirdre are my trusted allies. I have somewhat warm relations with Morgans and Hive. Well, before Santiago went and annihilated the Yang and his followers.
The only thing Miriam and Santiago has done for me is extorting energy and tech. You are free to try maniacs. Gaians and Peacekeepers at least offered good trades.
/off-topic.

ORIGINAL: J HG T
The Alpha Centauri is indeed great example as every faction has unique dialogue when dealing with other factions. One of the reasons I love that game.

I agree! [&o]

Too bad there wasn't any remake or sequel to that great game.

How about adding a way to customize the races?  You would have default stock races, plus an option to customize one using a point system to add or subtract attributes.  That would be great!

The government can remain as a secondary factor for customization.  I do like the option of changing governments.  But unique governments would have to be changed to be part of the racial cost so you can buy an option for a more advance government that is now racially unique.

Adding a characteristic of bonus for ruins and exploration would also be cool.  So you can play a race that specializes in finding artifacts and rebuilding abandoned old vessels.

sounds like rpg features, me likes it

This is going to be a long post, bear with me...

Special Abilities: the special ability should be the factor that makes each race unique in the universe. They can range from none to two. Not all races are 'special'. Here is what I would assign. Not all special abilities are good, and some can offer a strength in one area but a weakness in another.

• Adaptability: Races with this ability can easily adapt to planets that are not of the ideal type. This is basically a +1 bonus to colonization tech, allowing the species to colonize worlds 1 'level' above current tech level, though at a penalty of slower growth.
• Merchant Society: Races with this ability get a bonus to economy development. The private economy will get a 33-50% bonus, which leads to a bigger tax base.
• Pacifist: Races with this ability try to avoid war if at all possible. They are more likely to agree to unbalanced diplomacy to maintain the peace.
• Toughness: Races with this ability get a big bonus to troop survivability. Troop power gets a boost.
• Curiosity: Races with this bonus are naturally inquisitive and get a permanent 10% bonus to research that stacks with other bonuses.
• Industrialists: Races with this ability get bonuses to building speed and mining efficiency.
• Warmongers: Races with this ability are only happy when they are at war. War weariness works inversely to the way it does with normal races. IE long periods of peace will lead to unrest and unhappiness.
• Engineers: Races with this ability get a 20% bonus to ship size (IE starting size is 276 instead of just 230).
• Strategists: Races with this ability gain bonuses to ground combat.
• Tacticians: Races with this ability get a bonus to ship power and defense.
• Tribal Society: Races with this ability suffer from a weak central government and are more likely to suffer revolts or civil wars when happiness declines.
• Harmony: Races with this ability tend to be happier on average and more agreeable to diplomatic offers.
• Entertainers: Increased tourism profits.
• Isolationists: Race is less likely to agree to diplomacy.
• Militaristic: Races with this trait maintain larger militaries than average, but don't necessarily go to war more often. Bonues to fleet and troop maintainence costs.
• Social Order: Races with this trait know their place in society, and are less likely to revolt or suffer civil wars.
• Antagonist: Races with this ability tend to ignore borders and are more likely to use spies and attacks to annoy their neighbors.
• Loyalty: Races with this ability are far less likely to break treaties once signed, and are difficult/impossible to convince to go to war against an ally.

I'm going to add this here as well, is it does fall under species characteristics:

Casus Belli: How other species naturally feel towards each other. This is my old Love/Hate example from one of the wishlist threads. To make it breif, this is a setting above the normal relations table that will determine how two races react to each other. Races that love each other will be very easy to form treaties with, races that hate each other will be very difficult...and if races hate one another, diplomatic gifts have little to no effect.

And thirdly, in the race file is how we need to determine how races treat conquered alien races:

• Assimilation: No changes from current in game post conquest happenings. Races are eventually assimilated into the empire and become productive members of society.
• Annihilation: Wiped off the face of the planet.
• Forced Labour: Unable to leave planet, economy boost from the 'free' labour to operate any mines.
• Quarrantined: conquered race is kept on home planet and never allowed to leave.
• Consumed: Alien population slowly dissapears as the conquering race 'eats' them. This sets up a possiblity of parasitic races. [;)]
• Banished: Alien population is forced to leave the planet and go elsewhere...where, we don't care, you just can't stay here!

I relize some of this is rehashing my wishlist items, but it never hurts to get it back into the discussion...fresh on the mind, so to speak.

Casus belli should also mean you get population unrest on your planets when you declare war on friendly alien empires.

I strongly agree about policy options for conquered races and policys for inter species migration.I hate friggen seeing my human population want to leave my planets to join a bloody spider planet.It kills immersion.

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

Casus belli should also mean you get population unrest on your planets when you declare war on friendly alien empires.

I strongly agree about policy options for conquered races and policys for inter species migration.I hate friggen seeing my human population want to leave my planets to join a bloody spider planet.It kills immersion.

Agreed, though that could be done under the special traits, Isolationist...they also stick to their own kind and don't intermingle.

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

Casus belli should also mean you get population unrest on your planets when you declare war on friendly alien empires.

I strongly concur.

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

I strongly agree about policy options for conquered races and policys for inter species migration.I hate friggen seeing my human population want to leave my planets to join a bloody spider planet.It kills immersion.

You thinking something like the function from Armada 2526 where you can allow/forbid races from immigrating/emigrating to/from particular worlds? I would certainly be in favor of something like that.

ORIGINAL: Seath

data there are no planets without a sun in our galaxy. Each planet or moon is around a sun

Actually, if the results of this research are accurate, they might be more common than planets orbiting around stars:

Free-floating planets more common than stars?