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How many more threads do we need complaining about the Soviets?

Play the Soviets against Germany then.

ORIGINAL: sveint

How many more threads do we need complaining about the Soviets?

Play the Soviets against Germany then.

Hey thanks for the valuable and relevant reply. I first started playing this game as the Soviets and definitely could not recreate what the AI is doing... not even close. Also, would you rather me 'complain' about something else? Last I saw this forum has these links that you can CHOOSE to click on. You have all the freedom in the world to just skip over this thread. Apparently you chose to invest the effort in not only reading this thread but also clicking on the 'Reply' button and wasting your keystrokes. Interesting. Peace be with you and perhaps I'll see you in another thread, one more of your liking. [8D]

The Germans wargamed the invasion of the Sovier Union several times. Even when they stacked the deck in their favor they failed to achieve their objectives which were Leiningrad, Ukaine and Moscow, in that order. The distances and logistics were just impossible to overcome. They would always end up in front of Moscow with no reserves, exhausted and over extended. Why the heck they went ahead with it was crazy. Of course Hitler was a genius so he knew better.

Anyway, you will most probably do better than they did speed bumps or no speed bumps.

I meant no insult. But every other thread complains about the Soviets.

I do suggest you start a game as the Soviets and you'll get a much better feel for their capabilities. 1941 right now is quite balanced (historical), except perhaps for the fall of Leningrad (advantage Axis).

Yeah, the Germans likely knew they couldn't win logistically but they really hoped for winning that diplomatic war and forcing a premature surrender from the Soviets. Boy did they underestimate the will of the Soviet people. Same thing with England right? I mean Hitler wanted to bomb them into submission and draw out a surrender that way since Sealion was cancelled. Winston Churchill was like a rock in a time of disarray. The will of the people caused Hitler to run out of gas.

ORIGINAL: sveint

I meant no insult. But every other thread complains about the Soviets.

I do suggest you start a game as the Soviets and you'll get a much better feel for their capabilities. 1941 right now is quite balanced (historical), except perhaps for the fall of Leningrad (advantage Axis).

Every other thread complains about the Soviets because as of this moment in time they are overpowered (more so in '42). It is therefore important to have these types of threads to bring up all these issues so the balance can be gotten right.

So why people capture Leningrad (which historically was impossible), if Soviets are overpowered?

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

So why people capture Leningrad (which historically was impossible), if Soviets are overpowered?

In real life the capture of Lenningrad was a near run thing, and should be quite possible if players choose to prioritize it by sending more forces than historical to capture it. Which is what most players do.

You don't have much of an argument there i'm afraid.

You can capture both Leningrad and Moscow in 1941 as Germany and you will still have a really rough time from 1942 on.

ORIGINAL: sveint

I meant no insult. But every other thread complains about the Soviets.

I do suggest you start a game as the Soviets and you'll get a much better feel for their capabilities. 1941 right now is quite balanced (historical), except perhaps for the fall of Leningrad (advantage Axis).

After playing several games as the Soviets I came to the conclusion Axis players are nuts.

Me being one of them [:D]

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

ORIGINAL: lenin

You are trying to exterminate a vast country of hundreds of millions of people. I'm sure a few of them will try to get in your way.....One thing the soviets were never short of was people...

Yes, but one should not assume that Soviet population is inexhaustible. The Soviet Union had a population of about 200 million in 1940, compared to Germany 80 million. That is only 2.5 times as much. Germany of course fought on many fronts, the Soviet union only on one, but OTOH there were the Axis minor allies. All I want to say is that the difference is not infinite.

Yes, being outnumbered 2 1/2 to 1 really isn't bad at all. [:'(]

ORIGINAL: Ketza
After playing several games as the Soviets I came to the conclusion Axis players are nuts.

Me being one of them [:D]

Soviet needs to attack with 9-10 divisions at same time just to get one fortified German infantry divisions retreat at 42. It is next to impossible rout German units at 42.

Most of the time Soviet can only advance 1-2 hexes per turn to German controlled territory even at best when there is no defending troops at all.

Even thin German lines (having unit only every second hex) can hold on 5 times more Soviet troops. If Soviets attack with whole front sized troops 400 000 - 500 000 men then German Player have to send couple divisions from reserves to hold whole offensive.

If you dont beleve me just play Soviet side and you see their abilities.