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Seems to be a problem with the understanding of "impossible" and "most improbable"

ORIGINAL: fuelli

Seems to be a problem with the understanding of "impossible" and "most improbable"

Just remember... 'it happens'. You can modify that how you like.

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Steve, sdhundt has been around the forums a long time. Definitely not a troll. Frustrated, sure. A troll-no.

Good to know, thanks. But he obviously doesn't want our help. If he did , he's cough up the info. And I GET frustrated with people who won't help themselves, or help others to help them when they ask for it. [:@]

I found the number of Chinese slaughtered, say 2500 to ten LYBs rather hard to swallow at first, now I just assume they are not trained in the art of retreat yet. V2 seems to have addressed it to a degree.

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

I found the number of Chinese slaughtered, say 2500 to ten LYBs rather hard to swallow at first, now I just assume they are not trained in the art of retreat yet. V2 seems to have addressed it to a degree.

Poorly trained troops get slaughtered when they face crack troops. That's not the game, that's military history and military science. Race has nothing to do with it. You get a poor showing out of Australian Milita when you put them up against crack troops. Australian regulars just back from North Africa are a whole different kettle of fish.



One of the things I keep telling people is "Are there any conditions in real life that could cause the upset?" Look for those 1st, before calling the game broke. Quite often, the game is doing a stupendous job of modeling reality , and we are doing a stupendous job of being stupid! OOPS! I left my fighters on 100% training and my CV's got their clock cleaned , is a common example.
[:)]

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

I found the number of Chinese slaughtered, say 2500 to ten LYBs rather hard to swallow at first, now I just assume they are not trained in the art of retreat yet. V2 seems to have addressed it to a degree.

Poorly trained troops with extremely low moral in a disorganized retreat getting slaughtered? I find it completely believable, and to be honest it is exactly what happened. Remember, this is not a US Marine regiment making a fighting withdrawal with a rear guard covering the retreat. Many of the troops in a Chinese corps were recruited unwillingly (that is conscripted and sometimes at gunpoint), having a rifle stuck in their hand an just enough training on how to point and shoot, and many times poorly supplied. It has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with lack of training and poor leadership.

ORIGINAL: Shark7

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

I found the number of Chinese slaughtered, say 2500 to ten LYBs rather hard to swallow at first, now I just assume they are not trained in the art of retreat yet. V2 seems to have addressed it to a degree.

Poorly trained troops with extremely low moral in a disorganized retreat getting slaughtered? I find it completely believable, and to be honest it is exactly what happened. Remember, this is not a US Marine regiment making a fighting withdrawal with a rear guard covering the retreat. Many of the troops in a Chinese corps were recruited unwillingly (that is conscripted and sometimes at gunpoint), having a rifle stuck in their hand an just enough training on how to point and shoot, and many times poorly supplied. It has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with lack of training and poor leadership.

Exactly my point![&o] It can happen to anyone. Read about the battle of Brooklyn in the American revolutionary war. Milita broke and ran, and were gunned down in mass.

I consider WITP-AE to be an exceptional creation. The research included eclipsing any simulation from my first game (panzerBlitz circa 1971 or so) to Talon softs computer version of ASL.
One side effect, if you will, is the uncanny ability of the game itself to lure one from the sofa, desk, what have you to the book store. Currently in Daniel Marstons book: War in the Pacific.
You may attribute my post as simply ignorance on a grand scale, or just a blurb from a fan of the game posting his two cents. I am convinced that war is only predictable in that they will be fought, results may very.

ps. I am no less emotionally attached to my pixelated forces than I was with my cardboard counters!
pss. I agree with you above on the factors regarding troop quality etc. The shock of results like I mentioned above are very curable by solid mechanics and planning. Hey, I have not played a turn against the AI in quite awhile, as the forums are entertaining in their own right and are helping with learning curve.

thanks, kb (lurker noob)

Here the Combat results from this turn, date is 14.1.43

1st Wave/Morning
Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 21
D3A1 Val x 21

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed, 10 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Gillespie
DD Bailey
DD O'Brien, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Walke
DD Woodworth
DD Hughes
DD Meade
DD Gansevoort
DD Sterett, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
8 x D3A1 Val bombing from 5000 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
12 x D3A1 Val bombing from 5000 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
12 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

2nd Wave/Morning
Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed, 6 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Barton
DD Lansdowne
DD Waller

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
12 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

3rd Wave/Morning
Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 18
D3A1 Val x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed, 10 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Voyager, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Benham, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x D3A1 Val bombing from 5000 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
17 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

4th Wave/Morning
Japanese aircraft
D3A1 Val x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Nicholas, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x D3A1 Val bombing from 5000 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

5th Wave/Morning
Japanese aircraft
D3A1 Val x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 3 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Lansdowne
DD DeHaven
DD Waller

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x D3A1 Val bombing from 5000 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb

6th Wave/Afternoon
Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 26
D3A1 Val x 22

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 2 destroyed, 10 damaged
D3A1 Val: 3 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Caldwell, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Hughes
DD Gillespie, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Bailey, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Walke, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Gansevoort, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Meade, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Woodworth, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
22 x D3A1 Val bombing from 5000 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
15 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Meade

7th Wave/Afternoon
Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 30 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 10
D3A1 Val x 47

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
D3A1 Val: 4 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Barton
DD DeHaven
DD Waller
DD Lansdowne

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x D3A1 Val bombing from 5000 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
21 x D3A1 Val bombing from 5000 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
18 x D3A1 Val bombing from 5000 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
8 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

8th Wave/Afternoon
Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 7 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Nicholas, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

EXP of my Wings is from 85 - 90, the Results is for me normal

Ah, so the results in the initial post were "slightly edited"... [;)]

The overall combat results look reasonable to me - the DDs were in the wrong place at the wrong time, ran out of AA ammo, and went down.

And the KB is repairing a fair number of bombers right now.

210 bombers is approx what I counted. I'd say that's enough to do in 10 dd's. There's no real life example to compare.

Too bad he didn't have fighter cover. I didn't see any escorting zero's. would have been a slaughter!! (unless they were edited out for simplicity sake.)

ROY, thanks for posting the results, I tried to figure out how to do it but was above my pay grade, thanks again.

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735

210 bombers is approx what I counted. I'd say that's enough to do in 10 dd's. There's no real life example to compare.

+1

Nothing wrong with those results. Never happened in real life, after Repulse/POW, as captains figured out to STAY AWAY. [:D]

Looks like a very plausable result under the specific circumstances.

Just out of interest: Did you set the Vals to 5k on purpose Roy?
Thats the reason you scored with torps only.

Seems his opponent is a person who is a suspected cheater, nothing to do with tactics or luck, just plain cheating.
tm.asp?m=3062960

He propably boosted the effect of his torpedoes...

ORIGINAL: beppi

ORIGINAL: sdhundt

I'm just saying a small fast DD would be very difficult to hit with a torpedo in any condition.

It is currently very very hard to torp DDs in the game. So again the question, how many planes where attacking ?

Yep, cause my planes with 80+ XP rarely get that many hits on the DDs. I'm far more likely to hit the DDs via Dive Bombers than with Torpedo Bombers...and the Nell/Betty are even worse than Kates when it comes to hitting DDs. Not saying that it can't happen...just seems to be an extreme case here, and extreme cases always deserve some scrutiny to see why it happened as it did.

Concur with that. Surprised the Vals didn't do anything. They are usually my DD killers.

Lookit that, its Roy. 90 experience bombers?