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RE: My Problem with WiTE

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:59 pm
by Empire101
ORIGINAL: heliodorus04

The fact that combat engine has already been abandoned for War in the West doesn't really inspire me to believe that its effects are working out evenly between German and the Soviets, either. 

Well I must admit when I read this I found it quite disturbing. I was hoping that we were proceeding along the old SPI path, first War in the East, then War in the West and finally the ultimate goal putting the two together for War in Europe. Obviously the combat engine is not upto the job if heliodorus is right.

Or could it be that War in the West requires far more programming in the Air and Naval Warfare departments, and because WitE just concentrated on the ground warfare, a bit of air warfare, and abstracted naval, it was the forerunner of greater things to come...... only time will tell. [;)]

By the way, is there anywhere up yet with info about WitW's development?

RE: My Problem with WiTE

Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:43 pm
by janh
Who said the combat engine was already abandoned for WitW? The only thing I recall reading was that is the foundation on which to further develop the next engine.
ORIGINAL: Uallas
What I do suggest as a possible method for dealing with the problem of 1941 counter-doctrinal Soviet flight, is that units remain within a given area (military district) until a given date. Ending a turn (or two) outside of their military district would result in losses and/or destruction.
Is this just a 1941 problem? In other words, it isn't relevant if you start in 1942 onwards?

This isn't just a 1941 problem. In fact, I don't see it as a problem at all. It is also not just Soviet related. Also many Axis players withdraw slowly during Soviet blizzard or later summer offensives to prevent deliberate attacks. I mainly attribute it to a combination of hindsight and learning effects, the small gains from holding anything except major cities or good defensive terrain, and the absence of more or less sensible, purely political "soft-factors" (like Stalin's holding early aggressive holding and counterattacking orders, or Hitler's no step back stance including strongpoint formation).

The catch is only that it probably has the biggest impact when one side is vastly superior to the other in terms of fighting power and mobility. Such as the in 1941 when Soviets are toothless (especially with 1.05) compared to Axis, and I bet the more AARs get into 44/45, the better the chances the reverse case will occur.

People complain a lot about that in case of the early Soviet withdrawals, fighting or not, since the Axis player's gains from improving on the German historical mistakes in the early phase are rather limited as the Germans did already quite well. They can gain more terrain at lower losses, including Leningrad a sure given and Moscow more often being seriously threatened now, but the Soviet player has much more potential and gain from not repeating historical mistakes. He can husband his forces for later war knowing that terrain won't matter as long as he just fights to evac really critical industry (again knowing from hindsight which that is; however, also the Soviets did prioritize as well), and he won't fight the many desperate and bloody counterattacks that the Soviet's did historically (which is partly a lack of the IGoUGo being too static and not accounting for reaction during a static phase and meeting engagements etc as well as the players knowing how weak most Soviet units are, both by game terms and by hindsight, and how little to expect from counterattacks).

If the Axis player just doesn't make the mistakes of the Hitlerian strongpoints, i.e. doesn't allow his units to be pocketed much in cities, withdraws too weak forces early instead of fighting for every inch, and doesn't clean his leaders of promising but not Nazi-compatible candidates, there is also a huge potential for improving on Axis mistakes after early 42.

RE: My Problem with WiTE

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:48 pm
by Joel Billings
We haven't abandoned the combat engine in WitW. However, more radical changes/corrections to it's formulas are in store for WitW because we will have more time to test the changes without impacting the public (without the test things could get worse not better). There will be more changes to air and naval warfare as well as these become more important, however WitW 43-45 will not have major naval changes (that will wait for WitW 40).

WitW 43-45 is still in early development. We've just about got the first map and database put together and hope to be testing the first scenario by the end of the year. We elected to do initial work on a complete War in Europe map (it's huge) and this took us a few months longer than we had hoped. The good news is that we have a map that we can now use for all War in Europe work, including a WitE 2.0 someday.

RE: My Problem with WiTE

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:38 pm
by Helpless
We haven't abandoned the combat engine in WitW.

Read WITE.