Matrix Games Forums

Tech spam is still an issue with the A.I in Legends.

No tech brokering and the A.I understanding that sellling some tech should not be considered would help.The A.I has no strategic view on techs at all, it will sell you anything and everything.

Another approach would just be to throttle tech trading. Your empire can only assimilate foreign technology so fast. Once you obtain a foreign technology in a trade, you are unable to obtain more via trade until a certain cooldown period has expired. The more valuable the technology you've traded, the longer the cooldown.

You could even make it so the technology you traded for isn't available until the end of the cooldown period. That would represent the time it takes your scientists and engineers to integrate the technology.

I thought tech brokering is already out. It's only natural that stealing/buying should be much quicker and cheaper than re-inventing.

Straight tech trading is just a substitute for espionage - another way of getting what you want unless the other side tries hard to keep i secret. Keeping things secret is difficult once the technology sees action.

I wish I could go back in time and kill who ever it was first introduced tech trading to PC games.  It is a detriment in every game I have ever played with it, and several games have after the fact added in toggles to remove it.  The AI can never use at as well as a player and it completely undermines the value of research.

Yes, it's annoying when 75% of my tech advances come from trading, and only 25% come from my actual research. I generally just don't do it when I play - partly because I don't like it, and partly because I just never think of "shopping around" to see what's available. I generally contact other empires with a specific purpose, not just to browse.

On the bright side, by not doing it myself, it gives the AI an advantage to make them more challenging.

Exactly, Keston. Or in the case of the Quameno, a means to a living. For them research is where they get their livelihood. The Zenox are somewhere in between. But, yes, buying technology can be seen as 'under the table' if explanations are needed.

ORIGINAL: Keston

I thought tech brokering is already out. It's only natural that stealing/buying should be much quicker and cheaper than re-inventing.

Straight tech trading is just a substitute for espionage - another way of getting what you want unless the other side tries hard to keep i secret. Keeping things secret is difficult once the technology sees action.

I like the ability to trade tech but I agree with others that it needs to be more difficult to do.

I do like the OP's suggestion as well.  This would not allow one to purchase the tech outright and may work out nicely.

I like Das123's suggestions it reminds me of Hearts or Iron series.

Perhaps we can also go a step further and introduce "timezones" for each tech proportional with the overall tech speed and penalties for jumping ahead in one category of research ( also like in HOI)


Btw, does the AI trade tech between themselves? (if the answer is no i will probably stop trading tech altogether)

ORIGINAL: Ares106

I like Das123's suggestions it reminds me of Hearts or Iron series.

Perhaps we can also go a step further and introduce "timezones" for each tech proportional with the overall tech speed and penalties for jumping ahead in one category of research ( also like in HOI)


Btw, does the AI trade tech between themselves? (if the answer is no i will probably stop trading tech altogether)

Oh yeah, they do. The AI periodically looks around for people they can sell stuff to, and is very interested in making money.

ORIGINAL: Ares106

Perhaps we can also go a step further and introduce "timezones" for each tech proportional with the overall tech speed and penalties for jumping ahead in one category of research ( also like in HOI)

Ah, yes, I know they have that in the Europa Universalis series. It is an interesting feature and I think works quite well.

I would also like to see a toggle to eliminate tech trading.

Having a research trade agreement in the game would be cool, but secondary to eliminating tech trading.

I love exploits in complex games, even more I love not to make use of them. I am very much in favor of the feature of tech-trading therefore.

This may sound a bit dialectical but it is how it is, the more choices the game allows, the more it is the game I want.

Here is an idea, based on one already presented:

Why not, when agreeing to a tech trade, instead of making it instant make it something that requires a certain amount of effort from other races' science teams. So say 15% of the research points that would be required to research from scratch, are now required from "buying," as well as maybe 5% from "selling" race. In this way, it becomes like a joint project that both races have to put in implementation work.

You would run into all kinds of diplomatic situations: "We paid you 1,000,000 for this a year ago, and you have failed to make your research scientists available to help us implement this...prepare for WAR!!"

The other upside of this is the "instantness" of acquiring new tech will be gone. Seriously, a new warp drive is swapped and all ship yards have instant mastery over it on Day 1? A learning curve feature might be useful (which would be represented by requiring a fraction of research to get up to speed).

I also think crash buying has to go. If crash buying worked in real life then we would have a cure for cancer, figured out time travel and learned the jedi mind trick method of persuasion. You can't just make a bank withdrawal and have the nuclear bomb available for armament the same day. Lots of money, however, COULD speed up research significantly (say 2x 4x 8x or even 16x).

That's what tech crashing does. It speeds it up by x3.

ORIGINAL: johnqwilson
I also think crash buying has to go. If crash buying worked in real life then we would have a cure for cancer, figured out time travel and learned the jedi mind trick method of persuasion. You can't just make a bank withdrawal and have the nuclear bomb available for armament the same day. Lots of money, however, COULD speed up research significantly (say 2x 4x 8x or even 16x).

There's no crash buying in the game at all though, is there? Currently, crash research operates exactly how you propose - it simply speeds up research by a factor.

I think, if you like the option of buying techs, you can only buy a percentage of research at a rather higher cost. Also it should not be possible to buy a complete tech, only a part of it. At the max say 50%. Rest should be researched by your race. But only if prices are much higher.

For example now buying a complete tech costs 100.000 credits. In my proposal it would cost you 100.000 credits to buy 15% of it. Moddable obviously.

Also +1 for the joint research effort, should give both parties a bonus.

Why not have tech trading only be allowed in the techs you're currently researching. Getting a tech trade converts the research to a crash project. The cost should be proportionately less than buying a crash project outright, and the modifier is dependent on the 'like' your trading partner has for you.
 
This does not help the Quamenos etc - have to think on that one.

Ah, good. I see that this issue has already been raised and discussed. I'd like to add that tech trading in Empire management games is not one of my favourite features. I played Civ IV with tech trading turned off and I like Civ V's research agreement. I try hard not to trade techs while playing myself but I read here that the AI will do it anyway?

I'd like to see every race get a bonus when adjacent to a higher tech race, which could be modified by espionage. The tech leader gets no benefit while everyone else slowly rises to their level. I play EU3 as well.[;)] One of the best 'historical' Empire management games IMO.

Tech trading is too derivative yet has the potential to be dynamic and drive competition between empires. Instead of giving away technology for a sum of money, change the system to allowing tech components to be sold and later licences to construct them to other empires.
However, in order to make this more interesting, there should be a random factor for each tech so they won't be similar.
A Dhayut empire may be in competition with a Securan empire over a similar shield tech ye the Dyahut's shile dis effective but bulky and the Securan can be leaner but defective in recharge rates.
It would be interesting to see empires seething as unlicense technology dips into their profits due to espoinage.

We plan to make further adjustments to tech trading in the future. This has been tweaked in each expansion, but a different system (similar to suggestions above where a tech trade creates a new research project or gives a bonus to research on a tech rather than giving you the whole tech) is where we'd like to go. Something like a research agreement also makes sense.

Regards,

- Erik