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RE: No more "been there, done that" games, please!
Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 5:41 pm
by Perturabo
ORIGINAL: Hertston
ORIGINAL: Rusty1961
Okay, how many Afghanistan operational level games have been sold compared to WW2?
There's enough in most of the areas you suggest to make a tentative assessment; enough to base a decision on whether to commit to a major project or not. For example, WW2 tactical games have been covered just as much as operational and strategic ones; if you include the semi-mainstream stuff like Men of War and Theatre of War even more so. Yet if CM: Normandy sells ten times what CM: Afghanistan does it's reasonable to assume those sales levels can be extrapolated to operational/strategic level with some degree of confidence.
Where there isn't anything to compare with, Africa and Iran/Iraq, I would consider the chances of turning any profit as virtually nil, and I very much doubt any of the developers here would think otherwise. Maybe the route to go is the traditional one, pushing for games that allow comprehensive scenario construction or modding? Would a new Vietnam operational game, particularly one lacking time and money for 'polish' and comprehensive testing, necessarily be any better than Boonierat's terrific set of scenarios for TOAW?
Armored Brigade. I think it's an excellent platform for anyone who wants to make mods about conventional XX century conflicts. Especially that it allows difference in speed of reaction of various armies and takes in account stuff like radios.
Assets are very easy to create as they are 2dimensional sprites.
Here are threads with screens from my two mods - picking a simple but neat style allows to produce a working mod in a few days.
http://www.armoredbrigade.com/forums/vi ... f=14&t=351
http://www.armoredbrigade.com/forums/vi ... f=12&t=334
RE: No more "been there, done that" games, please!
Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 5:49 pm
by redcoat
ORIGINAL: Rusty1961
E. Iran-Iraq war of the 80s. Biggest war since WW2 yet it is essentially ignored. The last year of the war had lots of maneuver and in '86 the Iranians did some hard fighting around Basra.
The Iran-Iraq War is covered at the tactical-level by the free game WinSPMBT. There are some scenarios with the game and it is easy to create very interesting random battles using the battle generator.
C. Wars in Africa.
WinSPMBT also covers many of the post-1945 wars in Africa. There is also the Africa@War mod for Squad Battles: Pacific War.
Linkie.
RE: No more "been there, done that" games, please!
Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:44 pm
by Hertston
ORIGINAL: Perturabo
Armored Brigade.
Noted, but it's a tactical game as is Win SPMBT. Rusty seems more interested in operational games (?) in this context, which is fair enough as the tactical choice is rather wider; there have been two Falklands games in recent years for example (Tiller and Pat Proctor), two Soviet Afghan games, at least three Vietnam games and so on. He's certainly right in that all the conflicts he lists are poorly served with operational or strategic wargames.
RE: No more "been there, done that" games, please!
Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:18 pm
by mllange
An operational game centered around the conflict in Afghanistan sounds about as boring as watching the dust my windowsill. There were few operational aspects in reality; hard to believe a game could make it any better.
RE: No more "been there, done that" games, please!
Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:23 pm
by Perturabo
ORIGINAL: nim8or
An operational game centered around the conflict in Afghanistan sounds about as boring as watching the dust my windowsill. There were few operational aspects in reality; hard to believe a game could make it any better.
I think the only way to make a game about stuff like that appealing would be making it from a perspective of a warlord trying to take over a part of the country.
RE: No more "been there, done that" games, please!
Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:47 pm
by wodin
ORIGINAL: nim8or
An operational game centered around the conflict in Afghanistan sounds about as boring as watching the dust my windowsill. There were few operational aspects in reality; hard to believe a game could make it any better.
I agree, blimey to be honest you can barely call it a War, a conflict yes, a war not really. The conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan in a wargame format would bore me silly. FPS market though seems to thrive on fighting in the desert against some terror organisation or other, but as a tactical game or an operational would hold no interest for me at all. I was testing SB Modern War and at the time it honestly bored me silly, and it's a game series I love. For a start SB due to it's abstractions, I found just barely worked in a modern war setting and the other thing was the scenarios and conflict bored me, no interest in them at all. Thats the reason why you don't get games made covering more recent conflicts and and lesser known ones, to many people just not interested to make it a viable product. So the only real option is to mod a current game or make scenarios.
RE: No more "been there, done that" games, please!
Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:56 pm
by Magpius
For middle east wars, try schwerpunkt's game. Covers Iran, Iraq and desert storm.
RE: No more "been there, done that" games, please!
Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:34 pm
by bairdlander2
is the ui as good as RGW?I threw the disc in the garbage,what a rip off.
RE: No more "been there, done that" games, please!
Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:00 pm
by Rusty1961
ORIGINAL: Agent S
For middle east wars, try schwerpunkt's game. Covers Iran, Iraq and desert storm.
Sorry, I can't stand Schwerpunkt's games. I bought a few and was terribly disappointed. I want the "A" team to develop some games, not some minor-league outfit.
RE: No more "been there, done that" games, please!
Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:10 pm
by Rosseau
I have all the old Schwerpunkt games up to AGW. So am I entitled to agree there's just no excuse for a UI like that from any publisher, indie or not.
RE: No more "been there, done that" games, please!
Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:39 pm
by sabre1
I have enjoyed the Schwerpunkt games, and appreciate the customer service and support Mr. Dockal has given me. I do understand though that the UI is an acquired taste.
That statement can also be applied to the ProSim line of games. My contacts in the past with ProSim were also extremely helpful and polite when I actively played the game.
RE: No more "been there, done that" games, please!
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:54 am
by 2ndACR
I miss the modern/cold war era. I remember playing SSI's Overrun! literally to death back in the day on my C64/128. Nothing better than sneaking thru the woods with a Milan team and popping that tank from the rear.
But have to say that Armored Brigade is extremely nice. Thanks to Petrubo for the link. Now I just have to work out how to use everything.
RE: No more "been there, done that" games, please!
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:33 am
by Hertston
ORIGINAL: Rusty1961
Sorry, I can't stand Schwerpunkt's games. I bought a few and was terribly disappointed. I want the "A" team to develop some games, not some minor-league outfit.
The phrase 'beggars can't be choosers' rather springs to mind!
RE: No more "been there, done that" games, please!
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:35 am
by Perturabo
ORIGINAL: 2ndACR
I miss the modern/cold war era. I remember playing SSI's Overrun! literally to death back in the day on my C64/128. Nothing better than sneaking thru the woods with a Milan team and popping that tank from the rear.
But have to say that Armored Brigade is extremely nice. Thanks to Petrubo for the link. Now I just have to work out how to use everything.
I forgot that the version on the site is a bit outdated. There's a new version that has 2 real world height/terrain maps
on the forums to pick terrain from instead of the random generator.
RE: No more "been there, done that" games, please!
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:45 am
by 2ndACR
That is very nice. Now we just need more years and goodies. How do you re-attach a tank/unit back to it's parent unit?
-in defense of schwerpunkt games
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:56 am
by Magpius
wow, the comments surprised me.
I thought AGW was okay. It took a while to get used to the interface, and the mechanics, because they are old-school.
But you get a map that covers the whole screen., (unlike plenty of titles here where you end up with small map space surrounded by superfluous frames of eyecandy)
It pleases the history playing folks that dont necessarilly want to end up too far off script.
The grading system for ongoing score is good
The counters convey all the necessary information.
The map graphic is good.
Okay so you dont get animated a.i. moves, (Adv. Tactics didnt either)
and the map loading and fixed zooms can be a pain.
But it plays out well.
the U.i for MDE has evolved from AGW.
As far as I know it is a husband and wife team that make it, and the guy is active on the wargamer forum threads.
The U.I is refreshingly restrained.
The middle east scenarios, and there are plenty, all have well researched OOB's and deliver many hours of game time.
I dont think it's bin worthy, the are plenty of games worse than this one, still for sale.
and a patch for Middle East is due out shortly.
and he is also working on a new game combining agw with rgw, and there are plenty of supporters on these forums waiting for that one too.
my cent's worth.
RE: -in defense of schwerpunkt games
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:01 pm
by Titanwarrior89
How well does the north africa campaign play out?
ORIGINAL: Agent S
wow, the comments surprised me.
I thought AGW was okay. It took a while to get used to the interface, and the mechanics, because they are old-school.
But you get a map that covers the whole screen., (unlike plenty of titles here where you end up with small map space surrounded by superfluous frames of eyecandy)
It pleases the history playing folks that dont necessarilly want to end up too far off script.
The grading system for ongoing score is good
The counters convey all the necessary information.
The map graphic is good.
Okay so you dont get animated a.i. moves, (Adv. Tactics didnt either)
and the map loading and fixed zooms can be a pain.
But it plays out well.
the U.i for MDE has evolved from AGW.
As far as I know it is a husband and wife team that make it, and the guy is active on the wargamer forum threads.
The U.I is refreshingly restrained.
The middle east scenarios, and there are plenty, all have well researched OOB's and deliver many hours of game time.
I dont think it's bin worthy, the are plenty of games worse than this one, still for sale.
and a patch for Middle East is due out shortly.
and he is also working on a new game combining agw with rgw, and there are plenty of supporters on these forums waiting for that one too.
my cent's worth.
RE: No more "been there, done that" games, please!
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:05 pm
by Perturabo
ORIGINAL: 2ndACR
That is very nice. Now we just need more years and goodies.
It's a work for modders now. Though, when modding, it's best to use a separate game folder for each era.
ORIGINAL: 2ndACR
That is very nice. Now we just need more years and goodies. How do you re-attach a tank/unit back to it's parent unit?
Choose the parent units and choose form regroup or press shift+F8.
RE: No more "been there, done that" games, please!
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:12 pm
by Rusty1961
ORIGINAL: Hertston
ORIGINAL: Rusty1961
Sorry, I can't stand Schwerpunkt's games. I bought a few and was terribly disappointed. I want the "A" team to develop some games, not some minor-league outfit.
The phrase 'beggars can't be choosers' rather springs to mind!
Agreed! But how is that company doing with it's selection of conventional games?
RE: No more "been there, done that" games, please!
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:13 pm
by Rusty1961
ORIGINAL: rosseau
I have all the old Schwerpunkt games up to AGW. So am I entitled to agree there's just no excuse for a UI like that from any publisher, indie or not.
Agreed.