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Remember how surprising it was for an infantry squad to be killed when an aircraft drop tank fell onto their head(s).

ORIGINAL: sath

So I guess it make no difference if Russian planes losses are 50% less now on turn 1. I guess a fix is only needed or counts if it help the Russian side now. Honestly anyone with half a brain understood what the prior 2 patches would do the turn 1 Russian aircraft losses and you all did it anyway. This just flat out blatant now. There is actually some merrit to what Pelton is saying. He might not argue is best manner but you all are so convinced that this is the best course that you go right along.

ORIGINAL: traemyn

ORIGINAL: sath

So I guess it make no difference if Russian planes losses are 50% less now on turn 1. I guess a fix is only needed or counts if it help the Russian side now. Honestly anyone with half a brain understood what the prior 2 patches would do the turn 1 Russian aircraft losses and you all did it anyway. This just flat out blatant now. There is actually some merrit to what Pelton is saying. He might not argue is best manner but you all are so convinced that this is the best course that you go right along.

Can we please get some more responses from testers/dev on this change before sath starts handing out tinfoil hats? Thanks

ORIGINAL: Baron von Beer

[:D] The new German tactic, drop spare parts and fuel instead of bombs so the Soviets have to fly I-15s even longer?

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Well, I'm not entirely thrilled with these results either. It's not like I want another 2,000 biplanes and prewar junk. It takes forever as it is to run those inventories dry, this is just going to be more APs I have to spend for manual aircraft upgrades. The Luftwaffe was a silent partner in the Soviet air modernization program, now, not quite so much.

ORIGINAL: jazman

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Well, I'm not entirely thrilled with these results either. It's not like I want another 2,000 biplanes and prewar junk. It takes forever as it is to run those inventories dry, this is just going to be more APs I have to spend for manual aircraft upgrades. The Luftwaffe was a silent partner in the Soviet air modernization program, now, not quite so much.

So would you recommend the Germans skip airfield bombing on turn 1 altogether? If 2000 junk planes is a bad thing, why isn't 4000 junk planes even worse?

ORIGINAL: jazman

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Well, I'm not entirely thrilled with these results either. It's not like I want another 2,000 biplanes and prewar junk. It takes forever as it is to run those inventories dry, this is just going to be more APs I have to spend for manual aircraft upgrades. The Luftwaffe was a silent partner in the Soviet air modernization program, now, not quite so much.

So would you recommend the Germans skip airfield bombing on turn 1 altogether? If 2000 junk planes is a bad thing, why isn't 4000 junk planes even worse?

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

If you are playing the Barbarossa scenario rather than the Grand Campaign, you get +1 VP/5 planes destroyed. So the Axis are losing 200+ VPs leaving 1000 Soviet planes laying around.
if 2000

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

I wouldn't go that far.

ORIGINAL: Farfarer

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

If you are playing the Barbarossa scenario rather than the Grand Campaign, you get +1 VP/5 planes destroyed. So the Axis are losing 200+ VPs leaving 1000 Soviet planes laying around.
if 2000

An artificial and silly VP item for GC. I am waiting for reply on if 2000 is ad why isnt 4000 worse.

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

I wouldn't go that far.

From my perspective, all the Luftwaffe need do is smash the forward airfields and make sure no Soviet fighters can respond to their ground support and interdiction missions. Everything after that is just contributing to the Soviet air modernization program. Virtually nobody leaves air miles unused going into the Soviet turn -- and I'm extremely relieved of that because there's no interdiction to slow me down even more than is already the case with the crippled first turn movement rates. Luftwaffe interdiction is amazingly annoying.

Air supremacy is not synonymous with a huge casualty count on the enemy side; there's a point where this whole business of killing obsolete aircraft by direct bombing missions yields diminishing returns and arguably negative ones in terms of opportunity costs. I've long been bemused by the Axis fervor for driving up these surprise air attack numbers. Beyond that the most effective way to keep the Red Air Force off balance is to overrun airfields and force others to redeploy backwards to avoid getting overrun, it is the disruption caused by the ground advance that really hurts more than anything else.