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RE: Can we eliminate the cost of moving support units around, please?
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:35 am
by vinnie71
ORIGINAL: Flaviusx
James, I put all my HQs but STAVKA to zero on turns 1-3, set STAVKA to 9 and drain them dry. After that, literally every SU that is going to an HQ is getting there through STAVKA. The AP savings are very substantial, don't kid yourself on this score. When you're looking at a half dozen such free transfers per 60ish armies, plus various Front, air HQs, etc...yeah. This has become even more attractive now that the Soviet Union must use a lot more armies than before.
That's quite interesting and applicable to both sides. Having said that, especially after '42, such costs tend to escalate. I'm finding that even the Axis have to cut back a bit on AP spending, especially if one likes to control Luftwaffe more under control.
RE: Can we eliminate the cost of moving support units around, please?
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:42 am
by JAMiAM
ORIGINAL: Flaviusx
James, I put all my HQs but STAVKA to zero on turns 1-3, set STAVKA to 9 and drain them dry. After that, literally every SU that is going to an HQ is getting there through STAVKA. The AP savings are very substantial, don't kid yourself on this score. When you're looking at a half dozen such free transfers per 60ish armies, plus various Front, air HQs, etc...yeah. This has become even more attractive now that the Soviet Union must use a lot more armies than before.
Well...that's where you and I differ. I prefer to keep the SUs fighting the Axis from the get go, and only transfer out what I need, in order to flesh out the newly forming armies. The only thing I attach to Fronts are the RR Construction Brigades, which are built on the spot, or freely transferred from Stavka. So, the only real AP expenditures I have for transferring SUs comes from the initial movement from Army A, to new Army B.
RE: Can we eliminate the cost of moving support units around, please?
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:12 am
by Flaviusx
Soviet command and control in the first few turns is such a mongolian clusterf*ck that I think the benefits of leaving SUs in the HQs are mostly illusory. Better imo to straighten out your CC first and then trick out HQs appropriately.
RE: Can we eliminate the cost of moving support units around, please?
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:19 am
by glvaca
ORIGINAL: jaw
You won't get an argument from me that the automated system of moving support units leaves something to be desired. I used it in a recent game as the Soviet player and could not get things allocated the way I wanted to save my life.[&:]
The automated system is not the same thing as the manual system without AP costs. The automated system is merely trying to satisfiy the level set at each HQ irrespective of what the actual battlefield needs are. The system assumes the level corresponds to the battlefield situation in an abstract sense. If you set an HQ's level at 1, the system will try to provide one of every type of unit it can even if all you wanted was one artillery unit with that HQ.
By contrast, the manual system allows you to control not only the number of a type of support unit assigned to an HQ, but what actual types are assigned and even the particular support unit itself. Want that Tiger battalion to go to the SS Panzer Corps? You can do that with the manual system, you can't with the automated. The combination of such micro-management ability and the theoretical unlimited range you can transfer unit comes at the small price of a single AP for each unit. Sounds like a bargain in my book.
We understand how the system works, thank you very much.
We just would like a little more control, for instance be able to set the different types of SU's individually would go a long way.
2 arty, 1 AA, 3 sappers, etc...
An easy whay to bumb it to Stavka (like for divs with the X to go back to Corps).
No cost within the parent organization would be nice, for instance Army or Army group or whatever.
Finally, your arguement is thin as it doesn't cast any AP when you transfer SU directly to an army from OKH or Stavka.
RE: Can we eliminate the cost of moving support units around, please?
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:12 am
by Baelfiin
ORIGINAL: Flaviusx
Soviet command and control in the first few turns is such a mongolian clusterf*ck that I think the benefits of leaving SUs in the HQs are mostly illusory. Better imo to straighten out your CC first and then trick out HQs appropriately.
ROFL
RE: Can we eliminate the cost of moving support units around, please?
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:40 pm
by fbs
ORIGINAL: glvaca
We just would like a little more control, for instance be able to set the different types of SU's individually would go a long way.
2 arty, 1 AA, 3 sappers, etc...
Hooray to that.
Don't think that will happen anytime soon, though, unless it's in scope of the War in the West thingie.
RE: Can we eliminate the cost of moving support units around, please?
Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:07 am
by Farfarer61
Just let me combine those German SU's, or better yet have them auto combine if the I,II,III of the 360th Light but Tasteful Interior Decorating Battalion are under the same HQ.