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RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles
Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:53 am
by Apollo11
Hi all,
ORIGINAL: Heisenberg
Good rus film Они сражались за Родину фильм 2 / They Fought for Their Land
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWwVex6Y ... ton&wide=1
Two good but rather hard to watch Soviet WWII movies (i.e. they are not for everyone):
"My name is Ivan" ("Ivanovo detstvo")
by Andrey Tarkovskiy from 1962!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056111/combined
"Watch and See" ("Idi i smotri")
by Elem Klimov from 1985!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091251/combined
Leo "Apollo11"
RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles
Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:13 am
by notenome
ORIGINAL: delatbabel
The museum's actually in Park Pobedy (Victory Park) a couple of km from the Kremlin, to the south west.
It's a chilling display. The flag and iron crosses are in a glass / perspex case, pretty much at floor level. The building has high ceilings throughout, with many displays of Soviet war memoriabilia along the walls and around the room, then at boot level there are the remnants of the symbols of the Nazis.
I am reminded of the words:
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings,
Look on my works ye mighty and despair.
Pretty much.
ORIGINAL: rogo727
No doubt meant to be Russian propaganda on how the might of communism destroyed the nazis.
Propaganda? They
did destroy the Nazis. 20-40 million dead Russians, Ukranians, Poles etc was what won the war.
RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:02 am
by notenome
Just watched Cross of Iron. It's kind of jarring to see all the mustaches and beards the Germans are rocking. On the other hand the movie contains a lot of (true) stuff you don't normally see in war movies, like women serving in the red army and child-soldiers (both of which are accurate for the time period).
RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:36 am
by Zebedee
That's a superb (and deeply disturbing) film Leo. Was the one I was going to suggest.
In the vein of anti-war films,
Attack and Retreat is an interesting film - about the Italians on the Eastern Front (with a cameo by Peter Falk). It's not without faults (the portrayal of the Red Army is very generous to say the least) but worth a watch if you've some spare time for something a bit different.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059323/
RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:51 am
by Fishbed
Indeed. It is a little mistake in my view to consider the Eastern Front to be under-represented, movie-wise - it's first and foremost Soviet filmmaking about the topic which is grossly underrated, or sometimes completely ignored. The theater didn't need a thousand hollow movies, just a dozen great Soviet movies which catch the whole feeling so much better than any average western movie about the thing - movies from the western allies tend to be about soldiers more than about war, and that's understandable considering our own experience. "Come and See" is a masterpiece on this aspect. Some others, like "The dawns are quite here" (
link to imdb) focus on other topics brilliantly, ans grasp your breath and your heart like no other. Often, these movies are from books masterly written in a way only a Russian soul may convey, however red it may be. Make no mistake, it's not because it was made in a certain era that it is deprived of all the sensitiveness, all the emotion, all the melancholy and fatality you may expect from a Russian heart and its work of art.
And, to come to the defense of the above-mentioned Stalingrad, what the movie lacks in rhythm, it is certainly not lacking in authenticity. I know some may say that the last dozens minutes are boring, but seriously, the only objective reason why you'd be incline to praise a boring patrol moment of Das Boot more than an escape from the Kessel is Klaus Doldinger's music. No offense intended, I like them both, and they are great allegories of that big mess of a waste. You'll feel the cries, the agony, the revolt in every soviet movie about the war. Now feel what the German side felt when the snow slowly eats down what remains of the last soldier of the movie, just like Russia and the steppes chewed down the Wehrmacht to its last bits. Das Boot and Stalingrad are about how war wastes lives of good men in a crazy gamble against all odds, and I do find them equally admirable in their own way. But at the same time, don't forget to have a look at what the Russians have to say about their own rape - watch three or four movies, you'll see how the Eastern Front, when it comes to movies, is already quite well served with talent. [&o]
RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:32 pm
by Apollo11
Hi all,
ORIGINAL: Zebedee
That's a superb (and deeply disturbing) film Leo. Was the one I was going to suggest.
In the vein of anti-war films,
Attack and Retreat is an interesting film - about the Italians on the Eastern Front (with a cameo by Peter Falk). It's not without faults (the portrayal of the Red Army is very generous to say the least) but worth a watch if you've some spare time for something a bit different.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059323/
Yep...
BTW, I will try to get "Attack and Retreat"... I can't recall of wathing it...
Also, of the recent post-USSR Russian / Ukrainian / Belarus films one stands out:
"Brest Fortress" ("Brestskaya krepost")
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1343703/
Although it has its flaws it is better than most recent Hollywood production war movies (few shining examples aside like: "Band of Brothers", "The Pacific", "Flags of our Fathers", "Letters from Iwo Jima", "Saving Private Ryan")...
One of the recent Russian movies I didn't like at all:
"Admiral "("Admiral")
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1101026/
It is historically wrong in so many places...
Leo "Apollo11"
RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:48 pm
by Apollo11
Hi all,
ORIGINAL: Fishbed
Indeed. It is a little mistake in my view to consider the Eastern Front to be under-represented, movie-wise - it's first and foremost Soviet filmmaking about the topic which is grossly underrated, or sometimes completely ignored. The theater didn't need a thousand hollow movies, just a dozen great Soviet movies which catch the whole feeling so much better than any average western movie about the thing - movies from the western allies tend to be about soldiers more than about war, and that's understandable considering our own experience. "Come and See" is a masterpiece on this aspect. Some others, like "The dawns are quite here" (
link to imdb) focus on other topics brilliantly, ans grasp your breath and your heart like no other. Often, these movies are from books masterly written in a way only a Russian soul may convey, however red it may be. Make no mistake, it's not because it was made in a certain era that it is deprived of all the sensitiveness, all the emotion, all the melancholy and fatality you may expect from a Russian heart and its work of art.
And, to come to the defense of the above-mentioned Stalingrad, what the movie lacks in rhythm, it is certainly not lacking in authenticity. I know some may say that the last dozens minutes are boring, but seriously, the only objective reason why you'd be incline to praise a boring patrol moment of Das Boot more than an escape from the Kessel is Klaus Doldinger's music. No offense intended, I like them both, and they are great allegories of that big mess of a waste. You'll feel the cries, the agony, the revolt in every soviet movie about the war. Now feel what the German side felt when the snow slowly eats down what remains of the last soldier of the movie, just like Russia and the steppes chewed down the Wehrmacht to its last bits. Das Boot and Stalingrad are about how war wastes lives of good men in a crazy gamble against all odds, and I do find them equally admirable in their own way. But at the same time, don't forget to have a look at what the Russians have to say about their own rape - watch three or four movies, you'll see how the Eastern Front, when it comes to movies, is already quite well served with talent. [&o]
Unfortunately post WWII USSR war movies tend to be in two "flavors":
#1
Pure communist propaganda (most of the post WWII USSR war movies were like that) films that had almost no historical value (similar to many post WWII USSR war book and official histories which were almost all heavily "beautified" and which can not be regarded as objective historical books at all).
The shining examples is:
"Liberation" ("Osvobozhdenie") series (5 movies):
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0151852/
More info here as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation ... _series%29
#2
Artistic movies by some great directors that dealt with individual persons rather than "big picture" - those are usually great and very worth watching!
The best examples, IMHO, are (as I already wrote):
"My name is Ivan" ("Ivanovo detstvo")
by Andrey Tarkovskiy from 1962!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056111/combined
"Watch and See" ("Idi i smotri")
by Elem Klimov from 1985!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091251/combined
Leo "Apollo11"
RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:08 pm
by Fishbed
Apollo, I beg your pardon, if I may add, it's rather "come (Idi) and see (Smotri)" [;)]
From John's Apocalypse and the break of the seals by the lamb, releasing the four horsemen, and thus God's infinite wrath upon mankind...
RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:13 pm
by notenome
Well, Stalingrad isn't so historically accurate. Some examples:
-The surrender bit. This is where I find the movie quite confusing. Paulus vacilated greatly on the topic of his surrender. He gave the impression right until the end that he was going to commit suicide, which lead many of his staff and generals to shoot themselves. Then he changed his mind as the Soviets where outside his command post. It was a very chaotic affair, not a marching with hands held high kind of deal.
-The whole desertion bit. Despite his many (many) flaws, Paulus managed to keep discipline in the 6th Army's ranks through some fairly draconian measures. Of course a lot of chaos was occuring, but the 6th Army resisted for much longer than the Soviets and anyone else expected them to.
- The operation Uranus part (hospital). When the Soviets sprang Uranus the Germans had effectively taken the city. The Soviets held a small slither of the riverbank by turning the sewer exit pipes on the Volga into fortified bunkers, which the Germans which the Germans were not able to evict them of.
But mostly its just a very disjointed film, and its hard to make sense of it, not to mention the bad Nazi character that seems to be everywhere and whose only function is to be evil. If I had to compare Stalingrad to another work it would probably be Les Miserables, both are stories where its clear that the author has a message he wants to get across through the characters he develops (in absolute terms), and considers other elements (such as plot consistency and pacing) to be of secondary importance, which gives these stories an operatic quality. Les Miserables is called the story of coincidences and Stalingrad follows a similar vein, in my mind.
RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:48 pm
by Tauroggen
twice
RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:20 pm
by danlongman
People who complain about movies with anti-war messages really make me scratch my head. Anyone who actually enjoyed participating
in these events were pretty much psychos. IMHO you should never miss a chance to point out to the body politic that war is hell and cruelty
unrefined. I think of RE Lee's comment after Fredricksberg about enjoyment. I remember some fun times in the army and some great incredible intense friendships.
But it sucked. I think where some films fail is that it is almost impossible to convey the madness and terror so they must contrive images and cartoons.
Think of all the war movies before "Enemy at the Gates" and "Saving Ryans Privates". War was frequently protrayed as some kind of important
sporting event where, sadly, some guys got dead. The reason I mention those two was because they had an enormous impact with the realism
of their opening scenes. The overwhelming chaos and most importantly the incredible level of noise along with the desperate and helpless bewilderment
of the soldiers was never as effectively portrayed IMHO. My mom dragged my late father to pvt Ryan. He had been to Korea. A few minutes into
the movie the Old Man was gone. She went looking for him and found him outside the theatre smoking a cigarette he had bummed from a teenage usher.
He hadn't smoked for 20 years.
RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:37 pm
by wodin
Loved the movie but the English dubbing was terrible, why people rather have that than subtitles I've no idea, I hate dubbed films.
RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:40 pm
by wodin
ORIGINAL: Rufus T. Firefly
Forgive me for being too lazy to find a link and post it but, youtube also has the full movie dubbed in English if you prefer.
I watched about 2/3 of it a couple of weeks ago and I'm sorry to report I didn't find it to be worth more than 2 stars. I didn't think it was worth sitting through the final 40 minutes.
So what do you guys think is the best movie about the Eastern Front?
I'd say Enemy at the Gates, but I haven't seen very many.
Stalingrad was superb, EATG was a damn awful hollywood film , no one could do the accents even the acting was mediocre at best and whole feel of the movie smacked of hollywood. I remember seeing EATG reviewed by a Military Historian, he said go watch Stalingrad instead. and a fantasy battle between two snipers which never happened.
Stalingrad was far more realistic film. Shocked someone would think EATG was better.
RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:43 pm
by wodin
ORIGINAL: danlongman
People who complain about movies with anti-war messages really make me scratch my head. Anyone who actually enjoyed participating
in these events were pretty much psychos. IMHO you should never miss a chance to point out to the body politic that war is hell and cruelty
unrefined. I think of RE Lee's comment after Fredricksberg about enjoyment. I remember some fun times in the army and some great incredible intense friendships.
But it sucked. I think where some films fail is that it is almost impossible to convey the madness and terror so they must contrive images and cartoons.
Think of all the war movies before "Enemy at the Gates" and "Saving Ryans Privates". War was frequently protrayed as some kind of important
sporting event where, sadly, some guys got dead. The reason I mention those two was because they had an enormous impact with the realism
of their opening scenes. The overwhelming chaos and most importantly the incredible level of noise along with the desperate and helpless bewilderment
of the soldiers was never as effectively portrayed IMHO. My mom dragged my late father to pvt Ryan. He had been to Korea. A few minutes into
the movie the Old Man was gone. She went looking for him and found him outside the theatre smoking a cigarette he had bummed from a teenage usher.
He hadn't smoked for 20 years.
Antti War films have been made since the twenties "All quiet on the Western front". Even in the seventies films like Aces High were made. So they have been around well before EATG and SPR.
A recent war film that many seem to hate but I loved was Thin Red Line, the cinematography was sublime in that film.
RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:47 pm
by Tauroggen
@danlongman
You are certainly right of the madness of war and of the superficiality many older movies dealt with it.
But: after the opening scenes "Saving Private Ryan" more and more becomes a propaganda movie good vs evil, the same with "Enemy at the Gates" you mentioned. ("Enemy at the Gates" is in many aspects pure fantasy, not authentic at all.)
These movies are not better than the older ones. They are just more impressive and realistic in the use of weaponry and explosives, but completely miss the point that it is not the good ones vs the evil ones in war.
If you don't believe me because of Nazi warcrimes, take other wars and how they are dealt with.
The anti-war thing in most movies is in my opinion pure hypocrisy.
They use the sensational effects and the heroism, the whole movie is built on it, and then there is an added ideological tone that war is bad, (but the enemy has to be beaten because hes evil)
This is artistically and morally wrong and makes bad movies, in my opinion.
Maybe Kubricks "Full metal jacket" is the most honest movie of that genre, because it shows that they are trained to kill, and then they do it.
RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:49 pm
by TulliusDetritus
ORIGINAL: danlongman
People who complain about movies with anti-war messages really make me scratch my head. Anyone who actually enjoyed participating
in these events were pretty much psychos. IMHO you should never miss a chance to point out to the body politic that war is hell and cruelty
unrefined.
Right on all accounts, sir [8D]
There is this rule of thumb that always work... if you see a war veteran that loves talking about
his war, be sure of this: he saw no action, was in the rear, etc. etc.
Those who really were at the front will hardly talk about their war experiences...
This should tell you something. Namely, it's traumatic...
RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:50 pm
by Tauroggen
I also do not like this movie "Stalingrad" because of all its political vulgarities.
Tarkovskis "Ivans Childhood" you can watch in youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_vME7D0 ... ure=fvwrel
Tarkovski is a great man!
This is his masterpiece, "the mirror", plays also during World War 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCTMM1iZ ... ture=mv_sr
I find that Douglas Sirk: A Time to Love and a Time to Die (1958) is quite a good movie about the Eastern Front
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsq7PH3g ... re=related
Quite authentic, and maybe still the best German Stalingrad-movie is
"Dogs, Do You Want to Live Forever?" (1959)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kJ9Dtxpf-8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5R_bk_lRcE
and the other parts:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... nw6p_Y0oOU
The German movie called "08/15" with Gefreiter (Corporal) Asch you can find here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRVj4HKSYBw
I think the movie is superficial.
Soviet movies I found on youtube are:
This two movies, "the break-through", are about the battle of Kursk and the following campaigns: full of Soviet Propaganda, but very impressive and expensive, Hollywood-like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgTLjkxw ... ton&wide=1
From min 48 on you can see that the Soviet film industry seemed to have a few Tiger tanks for their movie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iyuc_0h ... ton&wide=1
This one, "ballad of a soldier", sings the hymn for a Russian hero soldier, in Soviet Propaganda Style, but also impressive pictures of Russian soul
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0zr8772 ... ton&wide=1
RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:00 pm
by TulliusDetritus
ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus
ORIGINAL: danlongman
People who complain about movies with anti-war messages really make me scratch my head. Anyone who actually enjoyed participating
in these events were pretty much psychos. IMHO you should never miss a chance to point out to the body politic that war is hell and cruelty
unrefined.
Right on all accounts, sir [8D]
There is this rule of thumb that always work... if you see a war veteran that loves talking about
his war, be sure of this: he saw no action, was in the rear, etc. etc.
Those who really were at the front will hardly talk about their war experiences...
This should tell you something. Namely, it's traumatic...
No wait, there is a well known exception: Adolf Hitler. Yes, they tried to prove he was during the war 5 or 6 kilometers behind the front (he was a messenger) and suffered little but apparently that was not a safe job at all.
And it is well known, Hitler's favourite topic was er... his experiences during WW1.
But eh, he was a psycho, so he does not count
RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:01 pm
by danlongman
Yes I pretty much agree TD but you forgot the third category, one that I mentioned
because I have met one or two. The Psycho. Two kinds: one who actually really enjoyed
the carnage and chaos and the second who is so broken that it is all that is left of him...that he went there once.
For me the former is terrifying and disturbing the latter is often finished for life, a fatal casualty as much
as the guy who was blown to bits. There is a big (for Kanookistan) military facility here and in the
population are many returned Afghan vets. I still retain some ties to the military and see some of these
guys in the course of my normal activities. I think when our Fathers and Uncles and Grandfathers
came back from WW 2 say, they may have had it easier because they were among thousands of returned
soldiers. The guys I see feel very alone and isolated.
RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:20 pm
by wodin
ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus
ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus
ORIGINAL: danlongman
People who complain about movies with anti-war messages really make me scratch my head. Anyone who actually enjoyed participating
in these events were pretty much psychos. IMHO you should never miss a chance to point out to the body politic that war is hell and cruelty
unrefined.
Right on all accounts, sir [8D]
There is this rule of thumb that always work... if you see a war veteran that loves talking about
his war, be sure of this: he saw no action, was in the rear, etc. etc.
Those who really were at the front will hardly talk about their war experiences...
This should tell you something. Namely, it's traumatic...
No wait, there is a well known exception: Adolf Hitler. Yes, they tried to prove he was during the war 5 or 6 kilometers behind the front (he was a messenger) and suffered little but apparently that was not a safe job at all.
And it is well known, Hitler's favourite topic was er... his experiences during WW1.
But eh, he was a psycho, so he does not count
Hitler won the Iron Cross in WW1. Being a messenger\runner was one of the most dangerous jobs in the trenches. He was no coward despite how propaganda and opinion likes to paint him out to have been. He was at the Somme during the Height of the offensive.
Stalingrad political vulgarities...care to explain. Also wasn't Dogs do you want to live forever a film rife with propaganda of the times. I think sensibilites are swayed and some peoples propaganda is more ture than others, yet Stalingrad to me had ne real political message at all.