Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: Chris H

Put the AUS command HQ in Alice. Set supply in Alice to max. This will then get to Katherine and beyond when needed but it is down a dirt track. Katherine should be set to stockpile.

Yes, this all helps but you still have to be careful of how many troops you plan on supporting. Also if you set Katherine to stockpile, no supply will leave Katherine so you will be less able to supply troops anywhere near Katherine.

True but I'm assuming Katherine was the end of the chain, if it's Fenton then Fenton should be set to stockpile.

ORIGINAL: jmalter

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Yes, this all helps but you still have to be careful of how many troops you plan on supporting. Also if you set Katherine to stockpile, no supply will leave Katherine so you will be less able to supply troops anywhere near Katherine.

Alfred corrected me on this awhile back - if base is set to stockpile supply, it WILL continue to supply troops in the field in nearby hexes, but it WON'T xfer supply to other bases.

if you click on a base hex and hit hotkey '5', numbers will appear, that'll give you an idea of how much supply a hex can draw from the base. these #s appear to be percentages, but i don't know what they are percentaging!

I was not aware of this. But I don't argue with Alfred...[;)] I will try the hotkey next time I fire up my game.

another thing to watch out for is spoilage - a base whose AF+P size is small doesn't have the capacity to store much fuel or supply. check the top right of the base screen for storage limits. if you've used the supply-amnt arrows to increase a base's draw past what it can store, some of that arriving supply is just going straight down the sewer.

in my game, i just found out that Loyang's high troop count and AF=1 was spoiling supply, particularly maddening given the amount of time & transport ops-losses i've put into the Ledo air-bridge. even mighty CONUS is not immune, as i develop the Oregon & NoCal airbases for ASW coverage, i punched up the supply-draw w/o regard for spoilage. oops!

So in short, if I understand correctly. You can't improve the road/railroad/cattle trail. What you got is what you got. You really can't improve the supply situation except by flying it in. Is that right? [&:]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I know someone who was a cop out there about 6 years ago. He and another cop were the only two in an area the size of Texas. He was based in Balgo. Taking a prisoner to the "local" jail was an over night trip. Even in this century, the roads became impassible by any vehicle in the rainy season and a 4 wheel drive on even the best roads was a necessity.

When he came to the US and drove in snow and ice for the first time he thought it was a piece of cake compared to those roads.

Bill

ORIGINAL: Dobey
I've supported IT for the Police out at Balgo. Even as little as 18 months ago if a phone line goes down out there they are without comms for a good week, or more. The telco provider (Telstra's) response to our query about why they couldn't meet their SLA to restore service was "Well, what do you expect us to do, send a helicopter out there?"

Small world. Even most Australians haven't heard of Balgo. The guy I knew was named Nigel Butler. He left around 2006 or 2007. He has some funny stories about his time in the middle of the outback.

Bill

And all Yanquis know the location of every location in the USA.

Plus anyone who lives near Wolf Creek must have rocks in their heads.

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

So in short, if I understand correctly. You can't improve the road/railroad/cattle trail. What you got is what you got. You really can't improve the supply situation except by flying it in. Is that right? [&:]

Correct. No Burma Rd either or any of the other road/rail construction that occured.

No help for your current game, but in a mod you could upgrade minor roads to a major road or even a railway with pwhexeditor. Then with the normal editor you could set a supply cap at the bases along the road (even add more bases if necessary) in order to limit the amount of supplies being transported through the hex each day. In the game you could then use Eng units to build-up the bases over time (sort of simulating infrastructure improvements including road / rail construction) which increases the supply cap. Each additional level of airbase, port or fort will increase the supply cap by its value. So a dot base without fortifications could be set with a supply cap of e.g. 100, when building a level 1 airbase the supply cap would be 200, with level 2 airbase = 300 and so on. By defining the maximum potential base sizes you could regulate the maximum supply cap. By using potential bases sizes for port in landlocked hexes instead of or in combination with air base potentials you could avoid an overabundance of airbases resp. overly large airbase sizes in terrain not suited. Some house rules would be necessary, e.g. limiting the use of forts or no strategic movement of units along major road / railway until all bases along the route have reached a certain size. By bombing the bases, the opponent could slow constructions (repairs come first) and interdict supplies (supply hits). I'm experimenting with this in my mod, but it is a slow process due to RL restraints and I can't tell yet whether it works. Perhaps someone else has tried this and can comment?

ORIGINAL: JeffK

And all Yanquis know the location of every location in the USA.

Plus anyone who lives near Wolf Creek must have rocks in their heads.

No insult or broad generalizations intended. I was trying to say (not very well) that Balgo is a very small place in the middle of nowhere. I wouldn't be surprised to see it's picture next to the definition of the middle of nowhere in the dictionary. [:)]

I was just a bit surprised to come across someone who had done any work connected with the place.

Bill

ORIGINAL: wdolson

ORIGINAL: JeffK

And all Yanquis know the location of every location in the USA.

Plus anyone who lives near Wolf Creek must have rocks in their heads.

No insult or broad generalizations intended. I was trying to say (not very well) that Balgo is a very small place in the middle of nowhere. I wouldn't be surprised to see it's picture next to the definition of the middle of nowhere in the dictionary. [:)]

I was just a bit surprised to come across someone who had done any work connected with the place.

Bill

To be honest I think you're assessment is pretty much spot on Bill. The NT and NW Western Australia are full of little "dot towns" that most people here have never heard of, let alone overseas.

Had I not worked in my previous role I would probably never have heard of it either.

To make a game relevant comment - anyone who has been in that part of the country will appreciate the utter impossibility of marching a sizeable army through that area and maintaining it for any length of time.

ORIGINAL: Dobey

ORIGINAL: wdolson

ORIGINAL: JeffK

And all Yanquis know the location of every location in the USA.

Plus anyone who lives near Wolf Creek must have rocks in their heads.

No insult or broad generalizations intended. I was trying to say (not very well) that Balgo is a very small place in the middle of nowhere. I wouldn't be surprised to see it's picture next to the definition of the middle of nowhere in the dictionary. [:)]

I was just a bit surprised to come across someone who had done any work connected with the place.

Bill

To be honest I think you're assessment is pretty much spot on Bill. The NT and NW Western Australia are full of little "dot towns" that most people here have never heard of, let alone overseas.

Had I not worked in my previous role I would probably never have heard of it either.

To make a game relevant comment - anyone who has been in that part of the country will appreciate the utter impossibility of marching a sizeable army through that area and maintaining it for any length of time.

I'll have to take your word for it guys.They can criss-cross the Sahara , the can fight in New Guinea, go up and down accross Burma, Build the Ledo road,build the Transcontinental and Trans Siberian railroad, the Japanese can build a railroad across most of Thailand with hand tools (and slave labor), and the USA/Canadians can build in two years the ALCAN highway, but apparently the Ozzie outback beats them all. I'll have to see it someday.

Everybody says the road to Japan does NOT go through Darwin, but if you COULD supply it , I see a marvelous place for airfields to cover the leap frog camapign back into the DEI. My thoughts is , since that's why Japan fought the war to begin it , what better place to try to take away from her and make her pay through the nose to defend? I guess I'm thinking too much Sun Tzu and not enough Jomini and Clauzwitz.

What I feel is the limiting factor is not the strategy, the terain or ability, but the limitations of the game engine. THAT I can appreciate and accept. And until I learn to properly mod the editor (and find a PBEM opponent that's willing to let me try out my theory), I'll have to live with it.

Many,many thanks for gold information nuggets! [&o]
I greatly appreciate them, and learned a lot from them. [:)]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
What I feel is the limiting factor is not the strategy, the terain or ability, but the limitations of the game engine. THAT I can appreciate and accept. And until I learn to properly mod the editor (and find a PBEM opponent that's willing to let me try out my theory), I'll have to live with it.

Many,many thanks for gold information nuggets! [&o]
I greatly appreciate them, and learned a lot from them. [:)]

What the game engine does not represent well at all is the historical reality that DARWIN was not SYDNEY nor BRISBANE....nor was DARWIN going to be developed into a SYDNEY or BRISBANE in three months like the game engine allows.

The other thing the game engine does not represent well is the millions of tons of supplies that were shipped into Australia to build up the infrastructure at SYDNEY/BRISBANE et al. to support trrops that were stationed there and transited the area.

One of the reasons that the Allies went back through the Solomons and Papua is because the East Coast Australian infrastructure to support the intial moves into those areas was already partially in place. And once there it was easier to continue the momentum from there...rather than shift the momentum 1000 miles to the west from an undeveloped port.

One of the other things that the game engine does not represent well either is the relatively lack of supply spoilage. SYDNEY/BRISBANE et al had the warehousing facilities to accomodate the storage of supplies needed in the coming offensives...DARWIN did not.

ORIGINAL: treespider

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
What I feel is the limiting factor is not the strategy, the terain or ability, but the limitations of the game engine. THAT I can appreciate and accept. And until I learn to properly mod the editor (and find a PBEM opponent that's willing to let me try out my theory), I'll have to live with it.

Many,many thanks for gold information nuggets! [&o]
I greatly appreciate them, and learned a lot from them. [:)]

What the game engine does not represent well at all is the historical reality that DARWIN was not SYDNEY nor BRISBANE....nor was DARWIN going to be developed into a SYDNEY or BRISBANE in three months like the game engine allows.

The other thing the game engine does not represent well is the millions of tons of supplies that were shipped into Australia to build up the infrastructure at SYDNEY/BRISBANE et al. to support trrops that were stationed there and transited the area.

One of the reasons that the Allies went back through the Solomons and Papua is because the East Coast Australian infrastructure to support the intial moves into those areas was already partially in place. And once there it was easier to continue the momentum from there...rather than shift the momentum 1000 miles to the west from an undeveloped port.

One of the other things that the game engine does not represent well either is the relatively lack of supply spoilage. SYDNEY/BRISBANE et al had the warehousing facilities to accomodate the storage of supplies needed in the coming offensives...DARWIN did not.

Tree I've heard of a lot of limitations , but a "warehouse gap"? [:D] The US had a solution for that...it's called a large quonset hut. They were used for everything from indoor training facilities (Great Lakes had one when I went to Basic in the late 70's...I saw over a thousand recruits exercising in there at once) to warehouses,motor pools and even hangers.
.

When I worked in the Museum on Guam we had boxes and boxes of photo's of Guam. Many of them showed this small island of less than 20k and only 200 troops turn into a massive floating ware house that supported the 3rd and 7th fleets,SUBPAC, the 20th and 21st Air Force and over half a million troops. That from a small , mountainous jungle covered island and in less than a few months.

I find it inconceivable that there would be any problem turning large,flat, barren areas of space into large "ware house districts" as was done on Guam, in North Africa and even in the UK .Docks, floating drydocks, various water tenders and support craft could rapidly turn Darwin into a rough , quick , Mega base.....if it had been so desired. I have absolutely no doubt that This could happen if it was considered inportant.

What I was wondering was how to defend Darwin while under attack and build it up till it was capable of defending it's self. And I wondered if it was at all possible to build up a supply route through the outback , overland from Alice Springs (Where the railroad ends, and the base can be built up to a pretty big base itself) through Tennnant Creek and Katherine. Alas , the answer is no. I CAN march troops (very slowly) overland from there. And I can do a "Berlin Airlift/Flying the Hump" type airlift for limited supplies.But that's it.

It appears that the key to holding Darwin and turning it into a mega base is 1st holding Timor. I'll be testing this in my game with "Satisfaction" (yes Andrew, go ahead and read this.....[:D]). Hold those small airbases, and Darwin doesn't come under ESCORTED air attack , so defense is quite possible.

But again , I'd like to thank everyone who responded [&o] , you've been VERY helpfull and given me a great deal to ponder.....and find a way around the limitations. [:D]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: treespider

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
What I feel is the limiting factor is not the strategy, the terain or ability, but the limitations of the game engine. THAT I can appreciate and accept. And until I learn to properly mod the editor (and find a PBEM opponent that's willing to let me try out my theory), I'll have to live with it.

Many,many thanks for gold information nuggets! [&o]
I greatly appreciate them, and learned a lot from them. [:)]

What the game engine does not represent well at all is the historical reality that DARWIN was not SYDNEY nor BRISBANE....nor was DARWIN going to be developed into a SYDNEY or BRISBANE in three months like the game engine allows.

The other thing the game engine does not represent well is the millions of tons of supplies that were shipped into Australia to build up the infrastructure at SYDNEY/BRISBANE et al. to support trrops that were stationed there and transited the area.

One of the reasons that the Allies went back through the Solomons and Papua is because the East Coast Australian infrastructure to support the intial moves into those areas was already partially in place. And once there it was easier to continue the momentum from there...rather than shift the momentum 1000 miles to the west from an undeveloped port.

One of the other things that the game engine does not represent well either is the relatively lack of supply spoilage. SYDNEY/BRISBANE et al had the warehousing facilities to accomodate the storage of supplies needed in the coming offensives...DARWIN did not.

Tree I've heard of a lot of limitations , but a "warehouse gap"? [:D] The US had a solution for that...it's called a large quonset hut. They were used for everything from indoor training facilities (Great Lakes had one when I went to Basic in the late 70's...I saw over a thousand recruits exercising in there at once) to warehouses,motor pools and even hangers.
.

When I worked in the Museum on Guam we had boxes and boxes of photo's of Guam. Many of them showed this small island of less than 20k and only 200 troops turn into a massive floating ware house that supported the 3rd and 7th fleets,SUBPAC, the 20th and 21st Air Force and over half a million troops. That from a small , mountainous jungle covered island and in less than a few months.

I find it inconceivable that there would be any problem turning large,flat, barren areas of space into large "ware house districts" as was done on Guam, in North Africa and even in the UK .Docks, floating drydocks, various water tenders and support craft could rapidly turn Darwin into a rough , quick , Mega base.....if it had been so desired. I have absolutely no doubt that This could happen if it was considered inportant.

In 1944 and 1945 sure...in 1942 no.

What I was wondering was how to defend Darwin while under attack and build it up till it was capable of defending it's self. And I wondered if it was at all possible to build up a supply route through the outback , overland from Alice Springs (Where the railroad ends, and the base can be built up to a pretty big base itself) through Tennnant Creek and Katherine. Alas , the answer is no. I CAN march troops (very slowly) overland from there. And I can do a "Berlin Airlift/Flying the Hump" type airlift for limited supplies.But that's it.

It appears that the key to holding Darwin and turning it into a mega base is 1st holding Timor. I'll be testing this in my game with "Satisfaction" (yes Andrew, go ahead and read this.....[:D]). Hold those small airbases, and Darwin doesn't come under ESCORTED air attack , so defense is quite possible.

But again , I'd like to thank everyone who responded [&o] , you've been VERY helpfull and given me a great deal to ponder.....and find a way around the limitations. [:D]

ORIGINAL: treespider

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: treespider






What the game engine does not represent well at all is the historical reality that DARWIN was not SYDNEY nor BRISBANE....nor was DARWIN going to be developed into a SYDNEY or BRISBANE in three months like the game engine allows.

The other thing the game engine does not represent well is the millions of tons of supplies that were shipped into Australia to build up the infrastructure at SYDNEY/BRISBANE et al. to support trrops that were stationed there and transited the area.

One of the reasons that the Allies went back through the Solomons and Papua is because the East Coast Australian infrastructure to support the intial moves into those areas was already partially in place. And once there it was easier to continue the momentum from there...rather than shift the momentum 1000 miles to the west from an undeveloped port.

One of the other things that the game engine does not represent well either is the relatively lack of supply spoilage. SYDNEY/BRISBANE et al had the warehousing facilities to accomodate the storage of supplies needed in the coming offensives...DARWIN did not.

Tree I've heard of a lot of limitations , but a "warehouse gap"? [:D] The US had a solution for that...it's called a large quonset hut. They were used for everything from indoor training facilities (Great Lakes had one when I went to Basic in the late 70's...I saw over a thousand recruits exercising in there at once) to warehouses,motor pools and even hangers.
.

When I worked in the Museum on Guam we had boxes and boxes of photo's of Guam. Many of them showed this small island of less than 20k and only 200 troops turn into a massive floating ware house that supported the 3rd and 7th fleets,SUBPAC, the 20th and 21st Air Force and over half a million troops. That from a small , mountainous jungle covered island and in less than a few months.

I find it inconceivable that there would be any problem turning large,flat, barren areas of space into large "ware house districts" as was done on Guam, in North Africa and even in the UK .Docks, floating drydocks, various water tenders and support craft could rapidly turn Darwin into a rough , quick , Mega base.....if it had been so desired. I have absolutely no doubt that This could happen if it was considered inportant.

In 1944 and 1945 sure in 1942 no. Oh I certainly can agree with that.I wasn't planning on a bomber/general offensive till 1943..equivalent to the 8th AF in Europe. My thought is it's easier for me to Hold the bases in 1943....then retake it in 1943. And if I can bleed the Japanese in the meanwhile all the better.

What I was wondering was how to defend Darwin while under attack and build it up till it was capable of defending it's self. And I wondered if it was at all possible to build up a supply route through the outback , overland from Alice Springs (Where the railroad ends, and the base can be built up to a pretty big base itself) through Tennnant Creek and Katherine. Alas , the answer is no. I CAN march troops (very slowly) overland from there. And I can do a "Berlin Airlift/Flying the Hump" type airlift for limited supplies.But that's it.

It appears that the key to holding Darwin and turning it into a mega base is 1st holding Timor. I'll be testing this in my game with "Satisfaction" (yes Andrew, go ahead and read this.....[:D]). Hold those small airbases, and Darwin doesn't come under ESCORTED air attack , so defense is quite possible.

But again , I'd like to thank everyone who responded [&o] , you've been VERY helpfull and given me a great deal to ponder.....and find a way around the limitations. [:D]

Uff, that green text is not working very well! Slightly drunk but still! I vote for a ban on all bright colors!

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Uff, that green text is not working very well! Slightly drunk but still! I vote for a ban on all bright colors!

Sorry about that.[8|] I changed to a darker color. Any better? [&:]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Tree I've heard of a lot of limitations , but a "warehouse gap"? [:D]

The Quartermaster Corps: Operations in the War against Japan page 86

Storage facilities at the Australian bases
varied appreciably in serviceability. During
1942 commercial space of all sorts was employed.
Quartermaster requirements for
storage space were then much smaller than
they later became, but at this time suitable
warehouses were so scarce that supplies were
even kept in empty shops, garages, social
centers–in fact, in almost any available
space. During 1943 an extensive leasing and
construction program provided substantial
quantities of Quartermaster covered space
in the Melbourne, Sydney, and Brisbane
base areas. In January 1944, when storage
operations in Australia were at their
peak, the Corps utilized more warehouse
space than any other branch of the Army,
occupying 3,175,000 square feet, or 43.7
percent of the 8,506,000 square feet employed
by the Air Forces and the technical
services.10

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Uff, that green text is not working very well! Slightly drunk but still! I vote for a ban on all bright colors!

Sorry about that.[8|] I changed to a darker color. Any better? [&:]

Yes now I can read it! [:D]

Hi everyone

Trying to get back into the game after a very long break (years lol). Playing Japan in scen 1 vs the AI - started just last month on the latest official patch then, and just patched to the latest. Great job btw.

I realize this thread is about Katherine but I'm having a similar problem with Mandalay being unable to draw any supply at all.

So I have turned off stockpiling for all bases including Rangoon which has about 30k supplies, and the rail line between Rangoon-Mandalay is secure. I have one corps HQ at Rangoon and one at Mandalay, which is stockpile on and supplies to 25k but seems stuck at near zero for ages. I have 2 air units there flying CAP but not even building forts, and about 30k troops.

Any ideas? Thanks in advance!

Many bases have monsoon setting issues. If you look on the left hand side near supplies, you'll see a number in parenthesis if the base is considered to be under the monsoon supply rules. This is the max amount of supply that can move into/through the base in a given phase. Factor in the fact poor transportation lines only move supplies once or twice a week and you can see some areas of the map are horrible supply lines. You can get the number to grow by increasing the base size, but it’s not a huge growth to the number, maybe 100 per base level or so. I also believe the number changes based on the date, so during monsoon season the number can be quite tiny.

Air and naval transportation are your best ways of moving large amounts of supplies into areas with limited transportation lines like these. You can plan ahead and slowly grow supplies at a base like Mandalay or Katherine over time, but you need months of lead time and if there is any kind of supply drain already occurring at the base due to large numbers of units, it’ll be tough to grow a supply stock very fast if at all. Your best bet is to pull the supplies in before you move any units into the area so you can have a large stock ready for later when your units do arrive.

In your case I'd move most of your stuff back to Rangoon and allow supplies to slowly grow at Mandalay. Then move in engineers to increase base size and eventually you should have a large stock of supplies built up. Then it'll be time to think about moving tens of thousands of troops into that dense jungle region of the earth.

Basically you want your supply demand number to be as small as possible at the base so it can grow supplies as fast as possible. If you keep combat forces deployed there, they will eat a lot of what little supplies arrive, so keep your garrison as small as you feel it is safe to.

Jim