Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: sandman2575

I think I meant to imply that Case Blue is richer, more sophisticated than Warsaw to Paris. I don't want to bash WitE -- I think it's definitely possible to be a fan of both GG's and Vic's efforts and to enjoy both -- no need for it to be one OR the other. Anyway, in that spirit, if you are a fan of WitE, I can't imagine that you will be disappointed by Case Blue or WtP.

Yes you did. Sorry, did not mean to infer something other than what you implied. I hate when people do that.

Exactly Sandman. WitE is pricey but I enjoyed it immensely in the first few months. The problem is, with all the patches and changes, I am afraid to go back to it - too much to re-learn. That's not the case with Case Blue. The editor is already familiar from Advanced Tactics and working for me. But neither will I bash Joel and team. He had been quite responsive on the forums when I was there.

ORIGINAL: rosseau

Exactly Sandman. WitE is pricey but I enjoyed it immensely in the first few months. The problem is, with all the patches and changes, I am afraid to go back to it - too much to re-learn. That's not the case with Case Blue. The editor is already familiar from Advanced Tactics and working for me. But neither will I bash Joel and team. He had been quite responsive on the forums when I was there.

All valid rosseau. I bought WitE on day one and still enjoy it.

But we are talking "...reasons to buy" Case Blue.

My reason is IT IS FUN.

At first I was going to purchase it as I already own Warsaw to Paris and nothing I like more than to encourage the Dev to continue making games of this genre. Then the more I thought, ahhhh...I have had it to here with war games that occur on the eastern front (heck why I am looking forward to Afrika Corps expansion)(I realize that they are 2 separate types of games of different format) but just can't fathom playing that so called Eastern Front again and again and again. Know I fully understand it's significance plus it was one hell of a battle with different complexities, strategies from both sides, large cities under siege, large evacuations and annihilation of armies etc...Just can't be redone in the same scope anywhere else but on the Eastern Front! God what I would do for a game like this with WitE format but in the West or Italy or heck Africa!

But now after reading these PLUS's here from everyone, I guess the Eastern Front is not that bad after all!

If you don't already own it, you might like to checkout Vic's Advanced Tactics Gold. With it excellent random game generator, you can create all type of games. Vic has stated he plans some improvements to the random game generator. Might see that occur in next month, two or three.

ORIGINAL: radic202

... what I would do for a game like this with WitE format but in the West or Italy or heck Africa!

ORIGINAL: EisenHammer
Can we please chill out on WitE. And just give good reason for getting this game. Because all this trashing of WitE is actually turning me off from getting DC OP BLAU.

I think ppl are still ticked that they paid so much for WITE and the dev team has failed so miserably. I guess different people have different pain points but for me the "unit carpet" syndrome really just makes the game a joke. So I think it deserves some beating.

Anyway, I hear your request but really WITE deserves the smashing.

As for this game, get it or not as you like but I like it so far.

ORIGINAL: Webizen

If you don't already own it, you might like to checkout Vic's Advanced Tactics Gold. With it excellent random game generator, you can create all type of games. Vic has stated he plans some improvements to the random game generator. Might see that occur in next month, two or three.

ORIGINAL: radic202

... what I would do for a game like this with WitE format but in the West or Italy or heck Africa!

Thanks for the recommendation, I already own it and totally forgot I had it as I cleaned up my Desktop about 5 months ago and forgot to re-link the Icon to play the game. I will get back into that game real soon but in the mean time..............Case blue it is.

ORIGINAL: EisenHammer


Can we please chill out on WitE. And just give good reason for getting this game. Because all this trashing of WitE is actually turning me off from getting DC OP BLAU.

redmarkus' badmouthing WitE keep you from buying Case Blue? Are you kidding me??

ORIGINAL: jazman

ORIGINAL: EisenHammer


Can we please chill out on WitE. And just give good reason for getting this game. Because all this trashing of WitE is actually turning me off from getting DC OP BLAU.

redmarkus' badmouthing WitE keep you from buying Case Blue? Are you kidding me??

Yeah… and I guess you got a problem with that.[8|]

Seriously… I don't care. Redmarkus can say whatever he wants about WitE.
I just want to find out what good about this game. And trashing WitE is not helping as they are both different games.

Just one question. How Is the single player part of the game. I don't care about the MP part or exploits of the game only the AI and SP.

Game is pretty good. It's filling a different niche than WitE, though, and probably shouldn't be compared to it. This is a pure 100% operational game focused on particular campaign with no real production system. Scale is different, more compressed time frames and geography.

The battle card system for commanders is really neat, I like this a lot.

AI is adequate. I got a minor Soviet victory without too much trouble playing the Voronezh mini scenario (I missed getting a major by one point.) The AI may be better at defending than attacking. Possibly the lack of room for maneuver in this scenario makes things easier for the defender than in a larger game.

the AI is good enough to challenge you and teach you the game. the best part with all operational games is pbem.

ORIGINAL: WilliePete

It's good to see some of the more well known people from WitE in this forum. I couldn't agree with you more! CB is an awesome game and it deserves all the attention it can get!

Once I get a little more time behind the wheel, I'd like to get a game going with you, red.

Sure WP - that'd be great. Be warned that I mod better than I play

ORIGINAL: gabeeg

I like and play WitE as well but DC:CB is what I want to play in an operational East Front game. For me I feel the GG and team got trapped behind the amount of detail and it was too cumbersome to make changes/fixes without effecting the surrounding or dependent parts, throwing things out of balance. DC:CB is a good example that good, well done abstraction can actually lead to not only a more playable and enjoyable game but a more realistic game....of course this IMHO.

I don't want to bash WitE either...but I would like to discuss what makes people enjoy these games more or less than the other and why that is...is there a concensus or just personal tastes?

+1

ORIGINAL: DBeves

ORIGINAL: gabeeg

I like and play WitE as well but DC:CB is what I want to play in an operational East Front game. For me I feel the GG and team got trapped behind the amount of detail and it was too cumbersome to make changes/fixes without effecting the surrounding or dependent parts, throwing things out of balance. DC:CB is a good example that good, well done abstraction can actually lead to not only a more playable and enjoyable game but a more realistic game....of course this IMHO.

I don't want to bash WitE either...but I would like to discuss what makes people enjoy these games more or less than the other and why that is...is there a concensus or just personal tastes?

what makes people enjoy these

Agree totally with that - I like detail but it has to be presented correctly - and most importantly it has to be understandable to the person playing it. To my mind Grigsby over engineers his products to the point where whilst detailed they fail to present themselves in a way thats understandable to people who dont want to have to put in an insane amount of work figuring things out that the game cant show them. Therefore what you end up with is a lot of people buying his games cause they like the thought of it but in reality only a minute hardcore actually playing them. WiTE was a little different in that I think it was poorly done in that the code had sat around untouched for years and then picked up again.

Exactly right, and you are perfectly entitled to express this view here, or indeed anywhere you choose.

ORIGINAL: parusski

I personally agree with you redmarkus4, and I think you have every right to post any thoughts you have about WitE vs...anything else.

Thanks

ORIGINAL: EdinHouston
Please dont bring issues like that to this game's forum. That is something that belongs in the WitE forum, if anywhere. Lets dont use this game as yet another excuse to vent about WitE. In any event this game has out for one day, how about we wait with comparisons about which developer listens and which doesnt.

I'm sorry if you don't like what I have to say, but as far as I am concerned the only major restrictions here are on personal abuse and inappropriate marketing of non-Matrix products, etc. I have expressed my views (at length!) on the WitE forums with zero result. If I want to make comparisons between two games, then either of the relevant forums is an appropriate venue, IMHO.

Are you saying that it would make more sense for me to post about the relative merits of DC on the WitE forum than to post about the relative shortcomings of WitE here? If that's your position, it doesn't seem entirely logical to me.

If, on the other hand, you just don't like my views, well I can't help that, but I apologize for any offence caused.

ORIGINAL: jjdenver

I think ppl are still ticked that they paid so much for WITE and the dev team has failed so miserably. I guess different people have different pain points but for me the "unit carpet" syndrome really just makes the game a joke. So I think it deserves some beating.

Exactly. You captured it.

We won't get a better product from our supplier next time unless we express our views on the existing product. It's called 'market forces' or 'consumer power', or something similar, I believe. Often cited as a key driver behind the globalized capitalist system.

ORIGINAL: EisenHammer


Just one question. How Is the single player part of the game. I don't care about the MP part or exploits of the game only the AI and SP.

It's hard to judge fully at this early stage, but I have seen some very promising AI behaviour. As Flaviusx pointed out, this might simply be because the scope of the campaign is smaller, but whatever the reason, for the first few turns that I have played, the AI has performed like a reasonably well read newbie human player, which is meant to be a compliment.

All I ask from an AI is that it plays reasonably logically and in a fashion that looks somewhat historical - defending key points, creating a line, withdrawing when in danger of being pocketed (but not at unrealistic speeds), counter attacking, etc. I can impose personal house rules on my own play to ensure that the game plays out and I get a fun experience. I played The Operational Art of War for a decade and although the AI was never perfect, I don't think I ever posted one complaint.

Hi guys,

Comparing/contrasting with WITE is fine, as long as the focus in this forum remains on Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue. However, please remember to keep your comments constructive and civil. Bashing other games or developers is not ok. Expressing opinions on which game is better is fine, just keep in mind they are opinions and others may disagree with you.

2by3 have put a huge amount of additional support into War in the East, in fact another update will be available this week. While some players may disagree with decisions made either before or after release, others are playing and enjoying the game and in my opinion both WITE and Decisive Campaigns deliver a great wargaming experience.

Regards,

- Erik