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If the axis player moves by rail enough units to control all the harbors in the first three turns and a few boats to see if an amphibious invasion is launch and to cut the supply of the soviets in Sebastopol, it should be enough to keep the rail jonction from Sebastopol and Rostov open.
The soviets need all his units to control the german advance. How many of them have been part of this brillant operation ?
(You can feel bad. [:-] [:D]Staline would not have launch an operation like that ! Must be an idea of Churchill ? no ?

This is a joke?
Is Vic read what any of landing operations in WW2
Something like this was not to conduct a 42 y by the Russians
The scale of resources needed to shift the 5th Infantry Division are gigantic
How many Russians took transports?
How had landing craft?
How secured against the Luftwaffe?

Vic is extremely not realistic
As soon as you fix it IMO

Krup you can specify how many troops you have used in this operation?

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ORIGINAL: olivier34

If the axis player moves by rail enough units to control all the harbors in the first three turns and a few boats to see if an amphibious invasion is launch and to cut the supply of the soviets in Sebastopol, it should be enough to keep the rail jonction from Sebastopol and Rostov open.
The soviets need all his units to control the german advance.
(You can feel bad. [:-] [:D]Staline would not have launch an operation like that ! Must be an idea of Churchill ? no ?

the thing is he did have his ports garrisoned, even those two minor ally's gaurding the port I jsut stormed, they were no match to hold once the supply was cut.

I wonder if he is air supplying his forces? I can;t remember I think the axis have a large transport fleet, i am really curious to ask my opponent if he is airdropping supplies, although also kinda don't wanna give him any ideas either..[:-]

Garrisoning towns wont prevent me form cutting the rail lines sadly. And cutting them one turn puts the supply to sea where my boats eat it. i really think the only good solution is an engine change or a house rule. Or if he put maybe two to three full divisions guarding the west rail line. he would need probably an entire army group to garrison it properly the way the mechanics of the game work

How many of them have been part of this brillant operation ?

It is growing every turn. As now I think almost two full armies (counting sevestapol three), about 10-11 divisions (not counting sevestapol) (some are preparing for transport embarkment) although most of those divisions are not near full strength at all. Some aa regiments. The entire soviet fleet and almost the entire airforce.

And I still have an army in reserve. Once my western transports return I can land two divisions every turn.

Krupp It turns out that you were able to perform 2/3 D-Day Operation
LOL

I really congratulate the idea

ORIGINAL: Forever

This is a joke?
Is Vic read what any of landing operations in WW2
Something like this was not to conduct a 42 y by the Russians
The scale of resources needed to shift the 5th Infantry Division are gigantic
How many Russians took transports?
How had landing craft?
How secured against the Luftwaffe?

Vic is extremely not realistic
As soon as you fix it IMO

Krup you can specify how many troops you have used in this operation?

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I think I agree, the game mechanics dont really .. or are too accommodating of naval landings.. im sorry i did this, but i think its good to think of a way to fix it, i apologize for my gaymeyness

IM SORRY I WANST REALISTIC!

Hi forever,krupp,

I think i should give a reply here. First of all! I like the AAR and the aggressive tactics.

Secondly... the point in question:

Admittedly the German start position could use some initial troops in the neck of the Crimea like at the start of Trappenjagd, now the German player has to rail some troops in to prevent this move by Krupp.

But to be honest the rail lines could be defended with 2 romanian infantry divisions. Keep in mind that enemy only takes a hex by ZOC if it excerts X times more ZOC on the hex in question than any friendly units do.

Furthermore after landing a unit (amphibiously, as in not unloading in a port hex) it has 0 ap left and can only be moved further in land the next turn. This means the Germans can react by railing in extra units.

The transport also loses all AP on debarking troops in amphibious invasion and is now a very tempting target for the Luftwaffe.

Furthermore Perekop and Genitschesk are not ports in my game. So the Soviets will have a very problematic supply situation even if they manage to capture these towns. And even if the Soviets would have landed elsewhere and captured a true port keep in mind that the Luftwaffe is perfectly capable in reducing the locations structural points to 0 and thereby causing the same level of supply problems as if the town was not a port at all.

best,
Vic

Vic thank you for your reply but I wanted more about the reality of not landing five divisions apparently, than for advice on how to deal with it.
Landing operation in Normandy in a seven divisions and for their transportation needs to use 4000 ships and barges
I think that the Russians in the 42 y did not have the Black Sea such resources

@Forever,

For gameplay purposes the naval cargo capacities have been enlarged somewhat. true.

However keep in mind that the Soviets were at this time are able to do quite extensive naval operations as is shown in the evacuation of Odessa forces 1941, the building up of the Sevastopol army 1941, and also for example in their Christmas 1941 amphibious assault on the Kerch peninsula and subsequent shipping operations. I think their cargo capacity allows them to ship about 50.000 troops per week at least.

Also keep in mind that the landing at Perekop takes Krupp more then a week to execute if coming from the Northern Caucasus. The transports getting there need at least 2 rounds to get there. They stay there for a round and need 2 rounds to get back before being able to be deployed again. But even closer targets as Kerch require 3 rounds to execute and free the cargo up for new ops.

Best,
Vic

Vic

from what I read the Russians in the operation of 26 December once transported no more than 6-7 thousand soldiers
I can now turn on the game but seeing the size of the operation "Krupp" I assume that the ships transported a lot more troops than 7 k
Note also that the distance between Krech and areas occupied by the Russians is not great.
What other operation on the isthmus there is a lot more distance

After that, the problem is the effectiveness of German air force in the fight against the Soviet Navy

Generally, it seems to me that the Russians too easily can pass a lot of forces by sea.
But I'll test and may change my mind

ORIGINAL: Forever

Vic

from what I read the Russians in the operation of 26 December once transported no more than 6-7 thousand soldiers
I can now turn on the game but seeing the size of the operation "Krupp" I assume that the ships transported a lot more troops than 7 k
Note also that the distance between Krech and areas occupied by the Russians is not great.
What other operation on the isthmus there is a lot more distance

After that, the problem is the effectiveness of German air force in the fight against the Soviet Navy

Generally, it seems to me that the Russians too easily can pass a lot of forces by sea.
But I'll test and may change my mind

I am not saying some fine tuning is not in order. I am studying things a little further as we speak and I think i'll decrease cargo capacity a little as well as HP.

best,
Vic

I'm frankly amazed that Krupp could spare so many forces for this adventure. He's practically got a whole Front in the Crimea. I'm usually rushing this stuff to Rostov, myself.

i was wondering about this too. if Olivier was attacking him, he might have no troops left for this cruising hobby.

ORIGINAL: Keunert

i was wondering about this too. if Olivier was attacking him, he might have no troops left for this cruising hobby.

You may be right.. I could probably do the operation with less troops if I needed too. I maybe don't even need anymore but I will keep shipping them until we take back the peninsula. I would guess i could have done it with just 6-7 divisions total.

But maybe my opponent didn't turn up the pressure enough. Things might be different if my units were in pockets.

But even closer targets as Kerch require 3 rounds to execute and free the cargo up for new ops.

Around Kerch I can turn my landings around every 2 turns, by loading the transports and leaving them outside of port at end turn, next turn move to land, then turn after that move them back to port load, and move out port on the same turn. Or alternatively load them with units that have ap, form outside port, I only need to load form port units that are out of ap, usually ones that I have railed to port the same turn. I still think I could take kerch no matter what the germans do. I stil think landing forces should loose some readiness, thats just my opinion. It seems strange that moving a unit by trains takes off 25 readiness, but landing them on a beach form a boat doesn't loose any.

I agree the transports HP are too high, they are hard to kill with naval units so much that its easier for my fleet to kill german warships than transports.

Nm you already figured out how to do replays..nothing to see here move along.

ORIGINAL: balto

FANTASTIC.

With your introduction of the new Russian Tactic of Seaborne Invasion.., everyone will use it and fear it.

Therefore starting now, if the Germans already had an impossible task in Case Blue, KRUPP 88 has now made the German task more impossible.

Someone needs to give Krupp 88 a medal for this one.

Hah i thought i was the only person waiting to try this out.

ORIGINAL: krupp_88mm

ORIGINAL: balto

FANTASTIC.

With your introduction of the new Russian Tactic of Seaborne Invasion.., everyone will use it and fear it.

Therefore starting now, if the Germans already had an impossible task in Case Blue, KRUPP 88 has now made the German task more impossible.

Someone needs to give Krupp 88 a medal for this one.

I really don;t think i need a medal, i feel kinda bad actually, i think this should at least make a houserule of some sort regarding seaborne invasions, necessary, I honestly don't know what poor germans can do about this. Either that or maybe vic could make a rule regarding sea landings, like when a unit lands it looses readiness / organization.. instead of landing at 100% organization. My units leap off the ships and are running. Seems maybe overpowered. Might be better if landing disrupted their readiness significantly, that way they would need resupply before they could move so far and fast ect. Or another possibility, remove the ability of landing forces to affect zoc in surrounding hex's. taht way it would be impossible to break rails on the first landing turn.

Also It may be nice if airattacks on ships was a bit ore deadly, because as it stands there is nothing he can do to stop my navy without perhaps the entire german airforce.

CA army could probably do with a high priority replacement setting?

I had them on priority for I think the first two turns.. i can't tell but i don;t think they are getting replacements, the supply in sevestapol is pretty bad. I would like to land an army there to attack, but doing that would roughly double my transit time for my transports so I may capture kerch or another port on the east instead.

Well the easiest way for germany to counter it..which is what i'm doing for my german game is keep cities and ports garrisoned. If the soviets can't take the port to allow supply to reach the invasion force you're out of supply in a couple turns.

ORIGINAL: Forever

Vic

from what I read the Russians in the operation of 26 December once transported no more than 6-7 thousand soldiers
I can now turn on the game but seeing the size of the operation "Krupp" I assume that the ships transported a lot more troops than 7 k
Note also that the distance between Krech and areas occupied by the Russians is not great.
What other operation on the isthmus there is a lot more distance

After that, the problem is the effectiveness of German air force in the fight against the Soviet Navy

Generally, it seems to me that the Russians too easily can pass a lot of forces by sea.
But I'll test and may change my mind

The german player wasn't using his air force very well. Those ships would be sitting ducks if germany reacted right away.

It's also a big risk for russia. You really need all your forces to hold back germany. I would call this a big gamble.

I stil think landing forces should loose some readiness,

Iirc there is a rulevar you can set for readiness drop when disembarking. Edit: Just looked and there is no such rulevar i must have lost my mind.

BWheatley,

The German air can do nothing about the Soviet Navy if you have a combat vessels with the Transports. And you first need to spot the navy which require enormous amounts of recon. That is part of the problem is that the Germans cannot defend this tactic due to the mighty Soviet fleet.

You state that the German defense is to defend all ports.., well, that requires lots of units. So starting now after Krupp's Salty Dog, all Germans will man their ports, of course that is less units on the front lines where the Germans are already hopelessly overmatched.

I also see this operation as zero gamble because the Russians have tons of units to spare. Only Olivier has been successful as the Germans because he has a freakish grasp of the entire combat engine. I think you will find out real soon in your AAR that you are in deep poop being the Germans. Every penetration you make better have TONS of supporting because the Russian armor is within striking distance at all times.

ORIGINAL: balto

BWheatley,

The German air can do nothing about the Soviet Navy if you have a combat vessels with the Transports. And you first need to spot the navy which require enormous amounts of recon. That is part of the problem is that the Germans cannot defend this tactic due to the mighty Soviet fleet.

You state that the German defense is to defend all ports.., well, that requires lots of units. So starting now after Krupp's Salty Dog, all Germans will man their ports, of course that is less units on the front lines where the Germans are already hopelessly overmatched.

I also see this operation as zero gamble because the Russians have tons of units to spare. Only Olivier has been successful as the Germans because he has a freakish grasp of the entire combat engine. I think you will find out real soon in your AAR that you are in deep poop being the Germans. Every penetration you make better have TONS of supporting because the Russian armor is within striking distance at all times.

Like vic pointed out though those 2 cities on the neck of the crimea aren't ports. Without holding ports krupps going to find his units out of supply pretty quickly. You really only need a few minor units to protect against it from the start.

But yea i agree airpower is a not as strong against a 1942 navy as it should be.