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RE: Beer & Pretzels ?
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:10 am
by Grotius
I played Korsun Pocket, and I remember liking it a lot, but I don't remember it too well now. As I recall, it was on a somewhat smaller scale than Case Blue, which is operational in scope -- 6-mile hexes, with regiments as the basic units. I like both KP and Case Blue. But then, I liked WITP too, whereas it sounds like you didn't.
Anyway, Case Blue certainly has fronts! Long lines of units snaking north and south, encirclements and counter-encirclements, cities and RRs and roads to capture, "Prestige" to earn (or lose), aircraft: there's lots of fun stuff here.
RE: Beer & Pretzels ?
Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:54 am
by Redmarkus5
ORIGINAL: jonny211
Hi all,
I've been considering getting this as I'm a fan of eastern front games, how would it compare to something like Korsun Pocket? The whole 'front' thing in KP is what drew me in compared to WITP where I was fighing over specks in the ocean, and never finished a game.
Cheers.
Jon
If you preferred Korsun Pocket to WitP then I would expect you to love DC, which is basically Korsun x 2 but without the overwhelming granularity of WitP. I own and love WitP AE, but like you, I have never completed a campaign.
RE: Beer & Pretzels ?
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:54 am
by jonny211
Well I have DC now, thought I'd give it a quick try yesterday evening and next thing it was 2am. Very much like KP's big brother and I'm having my own disaster on the Donets as the Germans, love it.
No Beer & Pretzels ?
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:19 am
by Templer_12
I own Kharkov: Disaster on the Donets, and play it very much.
But, the graphical UI is worse than for Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue.
And the AI, quite good, although not as good as Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue.
I can't find much similarity between SSG series and Decisive Campaigns series.
Beside colorful graphics. [:(]
I hope you will be happy with Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue.
You will discover that it is definitely no beer and pretzels.
But if you want to, you can while playing, of course, place beer and
Pretzels on the side of your desk. [:D]
RE: No Beer & Pretzels ?
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:14 pm
by Kipper
Folks some advice please? I am thinking of making the plunge into DC after a layoff from wargaming. I love operational games, am an East Front nut and also think Vic is a genius coz I love AT/AT Gold. But I am thinking that the smaller scenarios of CD Warsaw to Paris might be a less formidable learning environment. Smaller scenarios, for example. Then I get Case Blue after I am comfortable with the system. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
RE: No Beer & Pretzels ?
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:21 pm
by Keunert
I would just jump in the recent title. It sounds like you are an experienced wargamer and the DC series will make you feel at home fast. Case Blue has more small scenarios to learn the game. and if you are an eastfront fan i would go with the new one.
I also think that both games really shine in pbem and the new title has really an advantage here: the Slitherine server system and a lot of players willing to battle.
RE: No Beer & Pretzels ?
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:28 pm
by budd
You'll be mostly right at home with the UI because you played At/ATG, there very similar. I purchased both since DC1 was on sale,but I started with case blue smaller scenarios and having fun with it.
Since you mentioned ATG, there is a new beta patch for ATG in case you didn't know.
RE: No Beer & Pretzels ?
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:14 pm
by Kipper
Thanks very much for the advice I'll head off and buy DC: Case Blue. I'll wind up buying Warsaw at some stage as I am keen to support Vic, not often a designer of his talent comes along. Thanks for the tip about the ATG patch BTW!!!
RE: No Beer & Pretzels ?
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:31 pm
by RCHarmon
Because of the posts by Redmarkus4 I'll be getting the game.
I am too much of a history guy and I like to see historical results if I play historically, then when I play the "what ifs", I try to see and understand the battles from a different vantage point; but don't get me wrong I understand that it is always a game. Nothing will ever be perfect.
I did read a post where it was said that this game made adjustments to make it more playable. I hope that is not the case, but I will soon learn. I understand that some adjustments must be made; I just hope this game retains a historical flavor.
I was terribly disappointed with WITE. It fails in too many areas and I am done with the template(so I will not be getting WITW). I will give credit and will say that WITP AE is a very good game. I own Garys War Between the States which is a good game though it doesn't properly resemble history. SOWG is a great game that I have played for a while now.
RE: No Beer & Pretzels ?
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:23 pm
by Redmarkus5
Welcome to the DCCB club! While there are some historical points that Grognards report with the game:
1. Most will be fixed or modded out pretty soon.
2. The overall game play makes up for the issues - no crazy AI super carpets or insane winter rules to deal with here.
I am a seasoned war gamer with 40 years experience going all the way back to Avalon Hill and all that. DCCB is the best overall east front computer war game experience I have had to-date, bar none.
RE: No Beer & Pretzels ?
Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:19 am
by Gizuria
I am a seasoned war gamer with 40 years experience going all the way back to Avalon Hill and all that. DCCB is the best overall east front computer war game experience I have had to-date, bar none.
Really? That's quite a testimonial. You're making me think about getting into this as well as WW2 East Front is my real wargame love.
RE: No Beer & Pretzels ?
Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:30 am
by Redmarkus5
ORIGINAL: Fascist Dog
I am a seasoned war gamer with 40 years experience going all the way back to Avalon Hill and all that. DCCB is the best overall east front computer war game experience I have had to-date, bar none.
Really? That's quite a testimonial. You're making me think about getting into this as well as WW2 East Front is my real wargame love.
The thing to remember is that there's not yet a 100% perfect PC 'board' game out there. For those who didn't like AT, DCCB really is a different game - much less generic and a much better representation of WW2 operations.
I am the first to admit that WitE is without any doubt superior to DCCB in several ways:
1. Better map, though hard to mod.
2. More accurate OOB at start.
3. Reinforcement schedules to Grognard standards.
4. Covers the whole war, etc.
However, once the game kicks off, I see DCCB as being way ahead of anything else for a convincing operational 'feel' and the modelling of decision-making and leadership blunders, as well as having a better AI. I didn't like the stock DCCB map at all, so I modded it to create a board game feel.
Of course, after you've played any AI a few times you will start to see it's limitations, so I have now moved on to PBEM and I'm having a great time with that. (Don't knock the AI too hard though - a new DCCB player will make plenty of errors that the AI doesn't until the human player learns the ropes).
DCCB models almost everything you could ask for in an operational game, but most importantly it is probably the most 'mod-able' game of its type ever produced. I can see huge long term potential here and I will be quite surprised if I am not playing modded scenarios and campaigns in this and other theatres for years to come. DCCB is the TOAW of the current decade, IMHO.
RE: No Beer & Pretzels ?
Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:40 am
by rominet
ORIGINAL: redmarkus4
The thing to remember is that there's not yet a 100% perfect PC 'board' game out there. For those who didn't like AT, DCCB really is a different game - much less generic and a much better representation of WW2 operations.
I am the first to admit that WitE is without any doubt superior to DCCB in several ways:
1. Better map, though hard to mod.
2. More accurate OOB at start.
3. Reinforcement schedules to Grognard standards.
4. Covers the whole war, etc.
However, once the game kicks off, I see DCCB as being way ahead of anything else for a convincing operational 'feel' and the modelling of decision-making and leadership blunders, as well as having a better AI. I didn't like the stock DCCB map at all, so I modded it to create a board game feel.
Of course, after you've played any AI a few times you will start to see it's limitations, so I have now moved on to PBEM and I'm having a great time with that. (Don't knock the AI too hard though - a new DCCB player will make plenty of errors that the AI doesn't until the human player learns the ropes).
DCCB models almost everything you could ask for in an operational game, but most importantly it is probably the most 'mod-able' game of its type ever produced. I can see huge long term potential here and I will be quite surprised if I am not playing modded scenarios and campaigns in this and other theatres for years to come. DCCB is the TOAW of the current decade, IMHO.
I really hope DC3 will cover all the east front.
But we have time with DC2 and the editor.
RE: No Beer & Pretzels ?
Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:07 am
by Gizuria
Sounds very good to me. I don't get hung up on the groggy stuff as long as the game-play is a winner. While I like WiTE, it somehow fails to hit the spot for me. I'm particularly interested in the linked campaign concept. Is it possible to create these with the editor?
RE: No Beer & Pretzels ?
Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:31 pm
by Redmarkus5
ORIGINAL: Fascist Dog
Sounds very good to me. I don't get hung up on the groggy stuff as long as the game-play is a winner. While I like WiTE, it somehow fails to hit the spot for me. I'm particularly interested in the linked campaign concept. Is it possible to create these with the editor?
Yes, linked campaigns of various levels of complexity can be created. Be warned that while editing existing campaigns is (relatively) straight forward, creating a new scenario is a more challenging process. A new linked campaign will take a while to appear, I expect.
RE: No Beer & Pretzels ?
Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:33 pm
by Redmarkus5
I hope so too, although the DC2 editor is sufficient for a serious modder to cover the whole East Front or, indeed, any other front of their choosing. You can basically edit and mod all of the main features of the game such as map, unit types, OOBs, graphics, combat values etc.