Matrix Games Forums

Posted: **Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:00 pm**

The OOB, that was another thing I forgot to mention. In terms of manpower the Red Army has been hovering around the 4.1 mark for most of the game, but it's risen to 4.2 now. He (if B is a he) has been around 3.4. The Axis have more artillery and tanks as well. Interestingly he's managed to keep the Red Army from growing just through winning lots of battles, rather than through encirclement and surrender. Losses have been at least 4:1 all the way through.

In my experience, Soviet numbers are the best quick and inaccurate indicator of how you're doing in 41: under 4 you're in danger of hitting the tipping point where you're not strong enough to keep from losing men faster than you can replace them; more than 4.5 and divisions are piling up faster than you can process them into armies. I'm pretty much on the watershed ...

Posted: **Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:37 pm**

Turn 14

The defences of Leningrad have held, despite another six-division assault on the back door.

Posted: **Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:48 pm**

There was no attempt to bomb the port this go, and no serious attempt to attack the line between the Baltic and the Msta. The only development to be concerned about is a short incursion by a single panzer division, which ought to be containable if I put some infantry behind the Msta. I'm beginning to think the fate of Leningrad depends entirely on keeping the back door closed and putting enough fighters and AA regiments in position to prevent the Germans from closing the port.

North of Moscow, strong mechanised forces (intelligence estimates about nine divisions) have pushed NW, away from the Moscow axis and towards Vyshny Volochek.

Posted: **Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:51 pm**

ORIGINAL: hooooper

The OOB, that was another thing I forgot to mention. In terms of manpower the Red Army has been hovering around the 4.1 mark for most of the game, but it's risen to 4.2 now. He (if B is a he) has been around 3.4. The Axis have more artillery and tanks as well. Interestingly he's managed to keep the Red Army from growing just through winning lots of battles, rather than through encirclement and surrender. Losses have been at least 4:1 all the way through.

In my experience, Soviet numbers are the best quick and inaccurate indicator of how you're doing in 41: under 4 you're in danger of hitting the tipping point where you're not strong enough to keep from losing men faster than you can replace them; more than 4.5 and divisions are piling up faster than you can process them into armies. I'm pretty much on the watershed ...

As it is so hard now to pocket units vs most SHC players, more and more GHC players are grinding it out to keep game close.
Its seems to atleast keep you in the game.
Its not easy getting the right mix of SU/leaders in the right units in the right areas.

Over-all wite is much more balanced then in the past.

Hes drop your fort on the back door hex?

Did he do the standard 4 to 6 regiment attacks on that hex, bomb 3x, then do the main assault or just the one main assault? Leader Model and 4 best infantry divisoins in his Corp, then 2 more good ones.

That hex falls 50%+ of the time if you do the attack like that + have 3 panzer divisions on reserve. Might take 2 or 3 turns, but never more then 3. I ran a test, 20 assaults and the average was 50%. Only 1 time did it take a 4th.

He could also simply bomb the crap out of the port, but the soaking attacks then big assault is more then enough.

Posted: **Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:57 pm**

ORIGINAL: hooooper

I'm beginning to think the fate of Leningrad depends entirely on keeping the back door closed and putting enough fighters and AA regiments in position to prevent the Germans from closing the port.

You might be right he is not assaulting it the right way.

Stop the right hook and you might just hold it.

Posted: **Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:00 pm**

I continue to be puzzled by this move, which is occupying most of the striking force of the northern group of German forces. I'm puzzled because it is taking these tanks away from Moscow, which means that the southern group of panzers don't have their complementary forces, so what are they going to do next? I could choose to believe that the thrust towards Moscow has been parried, at least until after the rasputitsa, but that seems a bit too good to be true. The only objective to compete with Moscow would be some kind of mega-encirclement behind the Valdai and heading north towards Finland, as Idaho did to Scar. This is a possibility, but I think I can hold it with reserves freed from the defence of Moscow (also in the previous game, Scar decided not to garrison the Finnish border, which made his opponent's job a lot easier).

Here is the situation south of Moscow:

Posted: **Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:06 pm**

As predicted, there has been a big push, but it hasn't resulted in a truly dangerous breakthrough, just a little bending of the line. Much the same is true of struggle before Tula:

Posted: **Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:16 pm**

Those Western Front armies in the pocket are 10th and 13th, which is a bit of a problem as 13th is commanded by Rodin Malinovsky, and I certainly don't want to lost him. I should have put him in charge of another army, thereby flying him out, but that thought only occurs to me as I type these words. Between the Tula attack and the push south of Moscow, a long thin salient has formed, most of which is ZOC-locked.

South of Tula, we have the long quiet section of the front:

Posted: **Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:20 pm**

Note the lack of German reconnaissance activity, and the lack of armour. From Tula south it is an infantry and cavalry war, in which the Soviets are drifting eastward as slowly as possible. In the deep south my offensive continues, but is easily contained. The cavalry raiding force is not going to be saved.

Posted: **Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:27 pm**

So, this is going to be a turn of masterly inaction. On the Leningrad sector, we simply rotate divisions. Despite what this screenshot shows, the backdoor was bumped up to 20 with a little further juggling. More fighters are flown to the airbases north of the city.

Posted: **Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:29 pm**

Here's the image. The NW Front Brigade was shipped in to strengthen the backdoor after this shot was taken.

Posted: **Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:33 pm**

Here's the final position at VV.

Posted: **Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:54 pm**

The 24 stack at the bottom of the shot is blocking the direct route to Moscow, so any outflanking drive will have to first outflank the Volga reservoir and the marshland around it, which will be difficult to achieve before the mud. The other option is a drive north, which would unhinge the Soviet defence in this sector and take the Valdai hills, but the value would really only be as a jumping off point for some other operation. I suspect, as I mentioned earlier a drive towards the Finns, but that would not be until November.

Here are the Moscow and Tula sectors after Soviet moves.

Posted: **Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:56 pm**

Tula

Posted: **Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:14 pm**

The Bryansk pocket is nicely sealed now, but Tula is looking a little more secure - but I'm sure the Germans could take it if they really want to. But could they take Moscow as well?

Here's the final position in the south. Zhukov is wasted at the SW Front, but where should he be moved? To the Stavka in place of Boris? (But Boris has a higher admin value, I think).

Posted: **Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:16 pm**

And here's the OOBs

Posted: **Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:24 pm**

My general observation is that the German player is using an unusual strategy. All the Wehrmacht's mechanised forces are concentrated in the north, but I'm not completely sure what the goal is. The result is that the eastern Ukraine is going to be unmolested, and will provide a productive boost to the Red Army in 42. Which, if you look at the state of its artillery and armour, will be very useful.

Posted: **Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:38 pm**

As it is so hard now to pocket units vs most SHC players, more and more GHC players are grinding it out to keep game close.
Its seems to atleast keep you in the game.
Its not easy getting the right mix of SU/leaders in the right units in the right areas.

Over-all wite is much more balanced then in the past.

Hes drop your fort on the back door hex?

Did he do the standard 4 to 6 regiment attacks on that hex, bomb 3x, then do the main assault or just the one main assault? Leader Model and 4 best infantry divisoins in his Corp, then 2 more good ones.

That hex falls 50%+ of the time if you do the attack like that + have 3 panzer divisions on reserve. Might take 2 or 3 turns, but never more then 3. I ran a test, 20 assaults and the average was 50%. Only 1 time did it take a 4th.

He could also simply bomb the crap out of the port, but the soaking attacks then big assault is more then enough.

The fortification level is still three, I think. So that's how you attack the back door is it? That's interesting - do you use offensive reserves at other times? I suspect that one difference between good and bad German players is just choosing whether to use hasty or deliberate attacks, and at what force. Experience must be a big part of that.

Posted: **Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:00 pm**

ORIGINAL: hooooper

As it is so hard now to pocket units vs most SHC players, more and more GHC players are grinding it out to keep game close.
Its seems to atleast keep you in the game.
Its not easy getting the right mix of SU/leaders in the right units in the right areas.

Over-all wite is much more balanced then in the past.

Hes drop your fort on the back door hex?

Did he do the standard 4 to 6 regiment attacks on that hex, bomb 3x, then do the main assault or just the one main assault? Leader Model and 4 best infantry divisoins in his Corp, then 2 more good ones.

That hex falls 50%+ of the time if you do the attack like that + have 3 panzer divisions on reserve. Might take 2 or 3 turns, but never more then 3. I ran a test, 20 assaults and the average was 50%. Only 1 time did it take a 4th.

He could also simply bomb the crap out of the port, but the soaking attacks then big assault is more then enough.

The fortification level is still three, I think. So that's how you attack the back door is it? That's interesting - do you use offensive reserves at other times? I suspect that one difference between good and bad German players is just choosing whether to use hasty or deliberate attacks, and at what force. Experience must be a big part of that.

Yes that's how I have done it in more then one game, been able to drop fort levels each turn win or lose. Just a matter of time before it falls.
The regiment or single division attacks cause the defenders fatigue lvls to increase/disruption + bombing does same. Then the main assault or assaults, which will drop fort lvls. If you set it up right 2 assaults are possible in a single turn with 3 panzer units in reserve mode.

I use O reserves to cross rivers and take out city hexes in frontal assaults. I have taken Moscow in a frontal assault in 1942.

I also use O reserve mode in 42 to help crack the layered fort defences. I will set 4 panzer units in reserve mode until after the wall is cracked.

I am guessing that he has never had to fight across the landbridge before vs a strong defence.

So you have a good chance of holding it.

Posted: **Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:41 pm**

Turn 15

Bombing attacks resume against Osinovets, but Leningrad holds out for another turn.

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RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of defeat (hooooper vs Bomazz)

RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of defeat (hooooper vs Bomazz)

RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of defeat (hooooper vs Bomazz)

RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of defeat (hooooper vs Bomazz)

RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of defeat (hooooper vs Bomazz)

RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of defeat (hooooper vs Bomazz)

RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of defeat (hooooper vs Bomazz)

RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of defeat (hooooper vs Bomazz)

RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of defeat (hooooper vs Bomazz)

RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of defeat (hooooper vs Bomazz)

RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of defeat (hooooper vs Bomazz)

RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of defeat (hooooper vs Bomazz)

RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of defeat (hooooper vs Bomazz)

RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of defeat (hooooper vs Bomazz)

RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of defeat (hooooper vs Bomazz)

RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of defeat (hooooper vs Bomazz)

RE: A tale of three cities: Soviets on the brink of defeat (hooooper vs Bomazz)