Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: wodin
...
Hand to hand combat was quite rare but mass surrender wasn't.
...

Ohoh..my friend, that statement (HtH combat frequency) alone could evolve into a very lengthy discussion! [:D] But I agree that surrender code needs to be looked at. An unsupplied, ammo less unit and surrounded would either surrender readily or in case of "fanatic" troops, all would be killed. Maybe there´s some grey zone, but I´d assume there´s either one extreme or the other. Not to forget, "disbandment" of a unit which also would fit between, with most troopers POW/killed and very few remainders escaping (at night, bad weather, good cover terrain) and beeing absorbed by nearby friendlies.

Disbandment maybe away around it. Maybe I was hasty about the hand to hand stuff..I had it in my head after someone saying it was rare in WW2 on the CMBN forum. Though going by my own research\reading material it happened alot esp on the Eastern Front. I was silly and listened to someone else rather than go by my own knowledge. Hate that when it bites you on the backside.

ORIGINAL: phoenix



Besides, I'd like to think that where it's a 'pig-headed' unit that surrounded and out of ammo (in terms of its attributes in the scenmaker tab), I have, say, quite a few hours more to rescue it before it gives in, than where it's, by comparison, a 'spineless' unit. So I wouldn't myself prefer anything auto like that.

Thats why i think it should vary as I said between one hour to maybe even a few hours..unless they are under attack..I expect most will throw up their hands.The first hour is the time the Officers are discussing what to do..a weak low moral unit surrenders quickly after the hour is up..a stubborn\fanatic or elite unit could take upto a few hours after..but it is coded if not rescued the unit will surrender before a set time is up say four hours. We already have units auto surrender and disband now..we don't choose it it happens automatically..this would be no difference your just putting a time on it to stop any silliness like surrounded units with no ammo sitting there for 12 hours etc waiting for what??

Or disband as Harry says which is an even better idea..as it then is away to show they tried to split up and make a run home..some made it and are taken in to other units..others killed or POW>.

Ah. See what you mean. Sounds better now. But shouldn't we allow for soem units being so fanatical that they will NEVER surrender, just die instead?

ORIGINAL: wodin

Disbandment maybe away around it. Maybe I was hasty about the hand to hand stuff..I had it in my head after someone saying it was rare in WW2 on the CMBN forum. Though going by my own research\reading material it happened alot esp on the Eastern Front. I was silly and listened to someone else rather than go by my own knowledge. Hate that when it bites you on the backside.

I know these CMBN threads very well, believe me! [:D] Thus I´d started to become quite sick of this particular topic. Some devs and their fanboi followers prefer to declare certain things to be "rare", cause these do not fit into the game design or otherwise are unwilling to make homeworks better and admit it. Sometimes understandable, but more oftentimes...sad.

At the eastern front CQC was daily bread and butter so to say. On the western front, well depended much more on the opponents involved (WSS, paras ect.) and variety is bigger, particularly in 1944/45. However, CQC was anything but rare in general.

[8|][8|][8|]
Well guess what I just found? I was reviewing the rate of fire code this morning to see how I could tweak this to reduce the rapid consumption of ammo and by accident I double clicked the wrong function. Instead of going inside the GetRateOfFireType() I ended up in the GetROF()and noticed this little gem under small arms:

// ALERT - FUDGE FACTOR - Dave 23 Feb 10
// added to increase rates of fire across the board rather than changing all the estab values
// applies to small arms fire
rateOfFire *= pf(2.0);

The trouble is we did completely revise all the rates of fire for each of the estabs. So in the end we are doubling the ammo expenditure for small arms fire. My bad. Removing now.

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

[8|][8|][8|]
Well guess what I just found? I was reviewing the rate of fire code this morning to see how I could tweak this to reduce the rapid consumption of ammo and by accident I double clicked the wrong function. Instead of going inside the GetRateOfFireType() I ended up in the GetROF()and noticed this little gem under small arms:

// ALERT - FUDGE FACTOR - Dave 23 Feb 10
// added to increase rates of fire across the board rather than changing all the estab values
// applies to small arms fire
rateOfFire *= pf(2.0);

The trouble is we did completely revise all the rates of fire for each of the estabs. So in the end we are doubling the ammo expenditure for small arms fire. My bad. Removing now.

Good to see you fresh and alert [:)]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

[8|][8|][8|]
Well guess what I just found? I was reviewing the rate of fire code this morning to see how I could tweak this to reduce the rapid consumption of ammo and by accident I double clicked the wrong function. Instead of going inside the GetRateOfFireType() I ended up in the GetROF()and noticed this little gem under small arms:

// ALERT - FUDGE FACTOR - Dave 23 Feb 10
// added to increase rates of fire across the board rather than changing all the estab values
// applies to small arms fire
rateOfFire *= pf(2.0);

The trouble is we did completely revise all the rates of fire for each of the estabs. So in the end we are doubling the ammo expenditure for small arms fire. My bad. Removing now.

Nice find mate [X(]

That should smooth things out a bit [:)]

Hurrah!

Until the fix comes, does this mean we should reduce ROF to min in order to get a more or less normal rate of small arms fire?

Would have thought that would help a touch.

ORIGINAL: phoenix

Until the fix comes, does this mean we should reduce ROF to min in order to get a more or less normal rate of small arms fire?

Probably.

Think I won´t touch any the Estabs until next patch. The ROF x 2 code leftover surely was a surprise.

Thanks. Been trying that - rof on min.

Not that I know zip about programming, but can you do a search through the code, looking for the words 'Fudge Alert'?

We can't see the code MrP.

I meant Dave. To see if there were any more forgotten surprises....

But anyway, sometimes, after a particularly hard night, I get a matrix moment, and then I really can see the code....

I did a search as soon as I discovered this and its all good.

ORIGINAL: phoenix

But anyway, sometimes, after a particularly hard night, I get a matrix moment, and then I really can see the code....

Use it wisely MrP..

Sorry but wasn't the 2x obviously?
I mean the ROFs in the Estab is half of what the in-game Rofs are, so now surprise for me, unless they were doubled again.

Arunja could you take a look into this thread?
tm.asp?m=3287364