Matrix Games Forums

I also picked up a copy of the 1944 version. Really a waste of money. Had less data than the 1942. They pulled all the ships that were known to be sunk and only put in a few diagrams of the standard ship types (Liberty, USMC C series, etc). Wartime censorship I suppose.

I have my eye out for a just-post-war version that might include all the war built ships. Has to be a bargain though. Social Security has it's limits.

I really don't get it. I just posted in the main forum an OT post on books out of print. Books like this merchant ship one sound like they should be staples for any military historian. I don't understand how they can be out of print? I just ordered the 1942 version from Amazon but it's a used copy. It defies my understanding. Considering all the garbage out there in print, that a book like this can be allowed to practically dissappear from existence.

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress
I really don't get it.

Neither do a lot of us Gary. It’s like, people don’t care anymore. In this incredible “information now” age, what happened yesterday is no longer relevant, unless it happened to Kim Kardashian or some other celebrity. We have lost perspective as a society. No one knows, no one cares, It just doesn’t interact with their personal space, ya know.

I see this everywhere and in everything. People don’t read anymore. If it’s not in the e-media, it isn’t jack. So old style books are dumpster crap, no matter what they might have to say. Marshall McLuhan had it right; the “media” has become the message. Sigh.

If you can find an old book with old time data, buy it, no matter the cost. You will never have the opportunity again.

Lamenta; ciao

Had to grab myself a copy too, this looks like a great resource. The only seller I could find on Amazon didn't do international shipping, so I found it also listen on Alibris incase anyone is in the same position.

Really a shame to see things like this slowly lost.

I recently inherited The World's Merchant Fleets 1939: The Particulars and Wartime Fates of 6000 Ships by Roger W. Jordan (Naval Institute Press, 1999). It contains 300 photographs, gives descriptions of funnel and hull colors, and details the losses of around 3000 vessels. Numerous countries (including Netherlands, UK and its dominions, USA and Japan) are included. Data includes: (1) vessel name, (2) GRT/DWT, (3) dimensions and (4) speed.

This source may be a bit too early for use in AE as it only includes vessels extant in 1939, but I will look something up if anyone wants.

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


I also picked up a copy of the 1944 version. Really a waste of money. Had less data than the 1942. They pulled all the ships that were known to be sunk and only put in a few diagrams of the standard ship types (Liberty, USMC C series, etc). Wartime censorship I suppose.

I have my eye out for a just-post-war version that might include all the war built ships. Has to be a bargain though. Social Security has it's limits.

AbeBooks has several copies of the 1949-50 edition, ranging in price from under $40 to over $120. I don't think there's anything in between that and the 1944 edition. It looks like it stopped being an annual and went to being published every 4-5 years.

According to the descriptions, the 49-50 edition includes a listing of wartime losses.

For SuluSea: Ile de France (in theater 420130 - 430402, returned 451121)

For SuluSea: Eagle Oil Tankers

For SuluSea: American Republics Line California Class

For SuluSea: Anglo-Saxon Tankers

For SuluSea: KPM De Klerk

ORIGINAL: Symon

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen
Wow, many thanks (to you and John)![&o]

Lot of the stuff you want had to be abstracted into what was available. I tried to accommodate Don as much as I could. Will look at making some relevant art for you because most of your ships are very near and dear to our hearts.

I'll do this for you (and Don) but they won't likely show up individually in standard games. This is only for you and Don and a couple other crazy people out there.

Question, some of the Ellerman Line stuff had a Maier-form bow. Do you wanna dig that deep? Ciao. John

I'll have to find out what a Maier-form bow is [8D]

Okie doke Kereguelen, I already started on De Klerk the neat thing about doing ships is more times than not the interesting stories about their service. As always the artwork that comes with the game is fantastic so I try to do my best to make the ships I work on fit within the art scheme. I'll post pictures and the files once they are complete.

Have a great and safe trip! [:)]

ORIGINAL: JuanG

Had to grab myself a copy too, this looks like a great resource. The only seller I could find on Amazon didn't do international shipping, so I found it also listen on Alibris incase anyone is in the same position.

Really a shame to see things like this slowly lost.

Try on Amazon.co.uk. Seller betterworldbooks does international shipping.

I already owned the 1942 and 1944 version of Talbot-Booths Merchant Ships. I stretched to buy the 1949-50 in hopes of details on late war building programs and completed ships. Unfortunately, the 1949-50 version does not deliver what I had hoped for. The book has changed formats, with fewer, smaller, less detailed line drawings and much less ship data.

According to the introduction, it is the first release since 1944 (nothing 45 thru 48) and has changed to primarily a recognition reference. Instead of detail on lots and lots of ships it has a line drawing of one "representative" ship and a general note that there were lots of similar ships. Gone too is the list of ships for each shipping company. It retains only the funnel markings and flag data for the various lines - but nothing on ships they own.

I attempted to reference one small group of ships built in Canada at the end of the war. These were the coasters of the "B" and "C" class. Small but useful ships, many of which were sold post war to Chinese coastal lines (the "B" class were thus known as "China Coasters"). Alas, nothing.

All in all I must recommend against the 1949-50 version - at least for the purposes of an AE modder. Between the 1942 and 1944 its the 1942 for sure. More data, more line drawings. Seem to be lots of 1942s out there and at reasonable prices. Grab one of those and give the rest a pass.

Hi Don,

thanks for the info! Good to know as I was tempted to aquire the 1949 version.

Do you have, perchance, solid real life data about the Japanese wartime standard ships (A, B, C, D, E, F, K and Tankers). I have all of them in my mod (with correct data for commissioning etc.) but still lack real life data about GRT, NRT, DWT and oil capacity for some of them (never bought 'Ugly Ducklings'). [I'm somewhat unhappy with the specifications provided for them in the AE]

Thanks!

'K'

I have "Ugly Ducklings". It's primarily Type A, but has some data on the others. More data in the text, like speed (13 max, 10 economical). Have not found endurance and have no reference for AE specs like maneuver or durability.

Here are a couple of scans. First is summary of Japanese Standard Types. Second is detailed specs on a Type 3A completed post war.

And the twoth one...

And, lastly, let me add one more ship to the list of requested artwork (line drawing from the 1942 Merchant Ships, of course).

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen
Do you have, perchance, solid real life data about the Japanese wartime standard ships (A, B, C, D, E, F, K and Tankers). I have all of them in my mod (with correct data for commissioning etc.) but still lack real life data about GRT, NRT, DWT and oil capacity for some of them (never bought 'Ugly Ducklings'). [I'm somewhat unhappy with the specifications provided for them in the AE]

Thanks! 'K'

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
I have "Ugly Ducklings". It's primarily Type A, but has some data on the others. More data in the text, like speed (13 max, 10 economical). Have not found endurance and have no reference for AE specs like maneuver or durability.

Lots of sources out there for this. Some good, some not so much. I like http://homepage3.nifty.com/jpnships/ because Mr Nagasawa is in tune with Japanese shipbuilders and is pretty righteous about the war period.

There's a bunch of stuff, Srcs and otherwise under http://homepage3.nifty.com/jpnships/ under tiem No 6.

It's in Japanese, but that shouldn't matter. You all should be able to figure it out.