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RE: 19th Jan 1943
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:28 pm
by Chickenboy
ORIGINAL: Lecivius
"Several people were close enough saying that the old USN BBs would get pwned. And they did. "
They did, but they were most likely winchester. Not a fair comparison.
As a result of the surface combat, many details of which were withheld from us, the USN BBs were moderately-severely damaged, probably by the IJN BBs. These, in turn, were largely unfazed by the surface fight.
The USN BBs may have been winchester. They may have been at 50% magazine capacity. We don't know the effect of the USN BB's ammo. status or what it was at the time of the surface fight.
RE: 19th Jan 1943
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:31 pm
by Chickenboy
ORIGINAL: cavalry
Would anyone like to comment on good surface set up for Jap surface units that include 2 BB?
Others have said it already:
1. 8-12 (max.) ships in the TF. I'd go 2xBBs, 3 CAs and the balance DDs.
2. Review TF commander as well as individual ships' Captains. TF commanders with high aggression ratings will be more likely to engage / re-engage until the bitter end. This can be good or bad.
3. Try to exclude any significantly slower ship classes from the TF of faster ships. Some of the Japanese Cls are real slowpokes-they don't belong.
4. Some will argue against mixing ship classe by weapon distance (like I've done above by integrating CAs with BBs), but I've not experienced major problems with it.
RE: 19th Jan 1943
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:41 pm
by Lecivius
ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
As a result of the surface combat, many details of which were withheld from us, the USN BBs were moderately-severely damaged, probably by the IJN BBs. These, in turn, were largely unfazed by the surface fight.
The USN BBs may have been winchester. They may have been at 50% magazine capacity. We don't know the effect of the USN BB's ammo. status or what it was at the time of the surface fight.
Agreed, we don't know. In any event, the US BB's were either low, or out, of ammo. They were also slower than their opponents. Can't run, can't fight. Not a fair comparison.
To answer Calvary, I would think the main weapons need to be similar (Yamato & Mushashi), and then escorts, a CL & some DD's. Mixing speeds on you composition messes up your abilities.
RE: 19th Jan 1943
Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:13 am
by Cavalry Corp
OK thanks so we all have differing views on composition. I am inclined to agree that the BB should have similar weapons and speeds. I am still not sure about the best mixes. Seems maybe BB are best just with DD for screening them - I notice that lots of DD seem to take the TT attacks from other DD.
RE: 19th Jan 1943
Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:14 am
by Cavalry Corp
And BB firing at DD seems to be pretty poor allround for some reason. Another reason to have plenty of DD with your BB.
RE: 19th Jan 1943
Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:24 am
by Puhis
ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
ORIGINAL: cavalry
Would anyone like to comment on good surface set up for Jap surface units that include 2 BB?
Others have said it already:
1. 8-12 (max.) ships in the TF. I'd go 2xBBs, 3 CAs and the balance DDs.
2. Review TF commander as well as individual ships' Captains. TF commanders with high aggression ratings will be more likely to engage / re-engage until the bitter end. This can be good or bad.
3. Try to exclude any significantly slower ship classes from the TF of faster ships. Some of the Japanese Cls are real slowpokes-they don't belong.
4. Some will argue against mixing ship classe by weapon distance (like I've done above by integrating CAs with BBs), but I've not experienced major problems with it.
My own rule of thumbs for IJN are:
1) Don't mix battleships and cruisers. Battleships only need destroyer escorts (for example 2xBB and 8xDD)
2) If you're going to fight with allied BBs and there's not strong IJN BBs available, use only DDs.
Example of rule 2)
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Feb 19, 44
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Night Time Surface Combat, near Tabar Island at 108,122, Range 12,000 Yards
Allied aircraft
no flights
Allied aircraft losses
OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 1 destroyed
Japanese Ships
DD Maikaze
DD Isokaze, Shell hits 1
DD Shiranui, Shell hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Nowaki, Shell hits 14, and is sunk
DD Arashi, Shell hits 5, and is sunk
DD Tanikaze, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
Allied Ships
BB Washington, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
BB Massachusetts, Shell hits 1
CA Baltimore
CL St. Louis
CL Mobile
DD Anthony, Shell hits 2
DD Fullam, Shell hits 1
DD Halford, Shell hits 1
DD Jenkins, Shell hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage
Japan lost 4 DDs, allies lost 1 BB and 1 DD. Maybe not the best outcome for IJN, but it was 1944 and I was happy.
RE: 19th Jan 1943
Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:21 pm
by Cavalry Corp
More inclined to agree now BB with DD looking a good balance and DD only units also good provided I have the DD...