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RE: Allied passenger liners to CV conversions?
Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:28 pm
by wdolson
How about this one?
http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/20110915/concept-aircraft-carrier-ice-2/
A drawing next to a modern CVN
http://airlinepilotguy.com/apg-048-part-2-project-habukkuk/
Only problem is that operating in the tropics could weaken hull integrity.
Bill
RE: Allied passenger liners to CV conversions?
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:59 am
by Gunner98
I remember reading about this concept in the 80's, a way of saturating the North Atlantic with air power either to support Iceland and the GIUK gap or to replace the loss of Reykjavik and Keflavik should Iceland fall. Every conflict has to have its whacky ideas - the rocket wheel to clear beach obstacles for instance, (circa 43) was in there with the AVRE and Flail tanks. Some work, some don't, most make you scratch your head when you first see them though... [:D]
B
RE: Allied passenger liners to CV conversions?
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:11 am
by Bullwinkle58
"Only" problem?! [:)]
The heat management from propulsion alone would have sent a division of naval architects screaming into the river. And the stresses imposed by freezing and melting ice on the structural members around the operational core? Wow. Ice is some powerful stuff when it gets into big chunks.
RE: Allied passenger liners to CV conversions?
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:38 am
by catwhoorg
Pykrete was tested by mythbusters a while back, they made a small boat and sailed in it, using their own version (which was made with newspaper rather than sawdust)
It really is a unique material. Its a fascinating design study. Full of its own flaws to be sure.
RE: Allied passenger liners to CV conversions?
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:45 am
by Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: catwhoorg
Pykrete was tested by mythbusters a while back, they made a small boat and sailed in it, using their own version (which was made with newspaper rather than sawdust)
It really is a unique material. Its a fascinating design study. Full of its own flaws to be sure.
I don't know how different pykrete is than raw ice in its ability to squeeze, but I'll take your word for it. An 80/20 ice/sawdust ratio would be better I think, but how much I don't know. What I was somewhat reacting to was the picture of a BB being embedded in pykrete. A purpose-built core might work if it were designed from scratch to be encased in pykrete. A BB put inside the stuff? Disaster IMO. Just picturing how main seawater intakes would work if they had a vertical lift to get the engineroom . . .
RE: Allied passenger liners to CV conversions?
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:44 pm
by MateDow
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
I don't know how different pykrete is than raw ice in its ability to squeeze, but I'll take your word for it. An 80/20 ice/sawdust ratio would be better I think, but how much I don't know. What I was somewhat reacting to was the picture of a BB being embedded in pykrete. A purpose-built core might work if it were designed from scratch to be encased in pykrete. A BB put inside the stuff? Disaster IMO. Just picturing how main seawater intakes would work if they had a vertical lift to get the engineroom . . .
I also don't know how the pykrete would work, but I can comment on lifting cooling water.
The rig that I work on has the main engines mounted 29 meters (95 feet) above the keel. We pump cooling water up for 8 3,500 kW generators for cooling. The saltwater cooling pumps are mounted down at the seachests, and then have the vertical rise.
The US Navy actually looked at using semi-submersible vessels (drilling rig types) as advanced airfields in the Indian Ocean around 2000. The chair of the Joint Chiefs came out to do a tour and ask questions about positioning and such. IIRC, they were talking about linking 6 together to make an 1800 foot runway for STOL operations. When they needed to move it, they would have divided into the component parts and transited at 6 knots. Even joined together, they could probably move at 3-4 knots if necessary.
RE: Allied passenger liners to CV conversions?
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:58 pm
by Sardaukar
ORIGINAL: Gunner98
I remember reading about this concept in the 80's, a way of saturating the North Atlantic with air power either to support Iceland and the GIUK gap or to replace the loss of Reykjavik and Keflavik should Iceland fall. Every conflict has to have its whacky ideas - the rocket wheel to clear beach obstacles for instance, (circa 43) was in there with the AVRE and Flail tanks. Some work, some don't, most make you scratch your head when you first see them though... [:D]
B
Rocket Wheel was in one episode of Dad's Army comedy series...and it was hilarious episode indeed. [:D]
RE: Allied passenger liners to CV conversions?
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:11 pm
by catwhoorg
A fun little project for mooselings (grandmooslings ?) if of a reasonable age.
Get two identical containers, that you can freeze water in and remove fairly easily.
In one - do just that
In the second add some hamster bedding/sawdust, water mix and freeze.
(put on eye protection)
Take hammer to 1st and watch it shatter
Take hammer to second, and watch how it absorbs the blows.
RE: Allied passenger liners to CV conversions?
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:14 pm
by Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: MateDow
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
I don't know how different pykrete is than raw ice in its ability to squeeze, but I'll take your word for it. An 80/20 ice/sawdust ratio would be better I think, but how much I don't know. What I was somewhat reacting to was the picture of a BB being embedded in pykrete. A purpose-built core might work if it were designed from scratch to be encased in pykrete. A BB put inside the stuff? Disaster IMO. Just picturing how main seawater intakes would work if they had a vertical lift to get the engineroom . . .
I also don't know how the pykrete would work, but I can comment on lifting cooling water.
The rig that I work on has the main engines mounted 29 meters (95 feet) above the keel. We pump cooling water up for 8 3,500 kW generators for cooling. The saltwater cooling pumps are mounted down at the seachests, and then have the vertical rise.
The US Navy actually looked at using semi-submersible vessels (drilling rig types) as advanced airfields in the Indian Ocean around 2000. The chair of the Joint Chiefs came out to do a tour and ask questions about positioning and such. IIRC, they were talking about linking 6 together to make an 1800 foot runway for STOL operations. When they needed to move it, they would have divided into the component parts and transited at 6 knots. Even joined together, they could probably move at 3-4 knots if necessary.
Yeah, but that rig was designed that way. A WWII BB had seawater intakes already designed, and didn't have to haul massive pumps around to lift against a 100 foot head. And that's only one system. Lots of aux. seawater systems. Then you have to deal with refueling, stack gases, potable water, sewage, etc., etc. Take a Honda Civic, encase it in ice, see how well it does on the interstate. [:)]
RE: Allied passenger liners to CV conversions?
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:15 pm
by Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: Sardaukar
Rocket Wheel was in one episode of Dad's Army comedy series...and it was hilarious episode indeed. [:D]
I recently watched most of the documentary series "The World at War." It has footage of this device as well in the D-Day ep.