Matrix Games Forums

Yeah, but in the sidewinder case, would you really not fly AAW missions at all because you are out of one missile type? I think that might be an override a fleet commander can make.

It's a complex issue. I was responding to the question "Why can't I load an A2G loadout and just skip missing AMRAAMs?". At this point the game abstracts loads as fixed items associated with available inventory. The abstraction can be deepened but there's work involved and possibly some player confusion.

Here's a quick suggestion, though. When applying loadouts to aircraft there could be inclusion check boxes by each item, which are checked by default. Unchecking the box deletes the selected store. This is a quasi 'pylon-by-pylon' method. I have no idea how complex this would be under the hood as certainly fuel consumption would need to be recalc'd as might RCS and other factors.

I think just an override on existing loadouts would be a simpler solution. If the override screws things up on the mission, it's the commander's fault.

I did notice that not having drop tanks available doesn't restrict using a loadout.

ORIGINAL: Wiz33
I view this not as a limitation but a bug that need to be fixed. I don't care if you can actually do this scenario without running out of AMRAAM. That's not the point. The point is that you should still be able to have AG loadout without needing AMRAAM. Either fix it or make AG loadout with no ATA missile requirement available.

I fully agree with you, and I actually devoted a significant chunk of code into ensuring that this would not happen; aircraft in Command are meant to be able to be outfitted with a loadout even if non-essential elements of that loadout are present.

So this definitely sounds like a bug. Can someone please post a save demonstrating this? Thanks!

ORIGINAL: Primarchx

In my opinion the point is the player needs to track their resources and play within the limits established by the game and scenario.

I suppose something like a "limited AAM" flag could be included, but frankly there's a reason those self-defense AAMs are on strike loadouts. Air forces are pretty conservative when it comes to mission safety and getting their birds home in one piece.

As I said. It's not about the scenario but the game mechanics.

Also. If there's an enemy surface force bearing down on your CVBG. Are you telling me that the CO would hold the surface strike because he ran out of AMRAAM and risk damage to the whole battlegroup? Or a ship captain holding his helo because it only have 1 torp instead of 2 while he know that there's a sub contact out there?

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

So this definitely sounds like a bug. Can someone please post a save demonstrating this? Thanks!

Just edited the standard OBD scenario by emptying the magazines and made a save.

Cant attach zips anymore?

So get it here off my webspace

I had set all these Hornets to reserve



Before I do anything, looking at loadouts, AMRAAMS a plenty, looks good:



I select four to ready and they start readying just fine:



Now I edit the magazine and remove all AMRAAMS from the ship. This time i pick another Hornet to ready and cant do it, even though only thing missing is the single AIM-120:

ORIGINAL: Primarchx

The trouble is that short of having a pylon-by-pylon loading system or having 1000 different load permutations per aircraft, you have to draw the line somewhere. In OBD the player is told up front that they have all the ord they can get. From that point on it's up to them to manage it. When I finished playing the final version of the scenario I had over 75 AMRAAMs remaining. Believe me, it can be done.

What was your friendly AC loss like? I found that the advanced Fulcrums requires 4~8 AMRAAMs for a kill at distance. Do you risk it and close your AC's distance?

I lost 1 F/A-18E by the end. In full disclosure I should say I wrote the scenario. But as the old addage goes, it's easier to kill a bird in the nest than in the air.

Typical launch range for AIM-120D was at 50nm (outer edge of AA-12 envelope and well into the SLAMMER's), then peel away while a second element of fighters further out kept radar contact. This kept the AMRAAMs from having really bad kinematic penalties, with a final pH of around 35% as I recall.

ORIGINAL: RadishRabbit

ORIGINAL: Primarchx

The trouble is that short of having a pylon-by-pylon loading system or having 1000 different load permutations per aircraft, you have to draw the line somewhere. In OBD the player is told up front that they have all the ord they can get. From that point on it's up to them to manage it. When I finished playing the final version of the scenario I had over 75 AMRAAMs remaining. Believe me, it can be done.

What was your friendly AC loss like? I found that the advanced Fulcrums requires 4~8 AMRAAMs for a kill at distance. Do you risk it and close your AC's distance?

ORIGINAL: Primarchx

I lost 1 F/A-18E by the end. In full disclosure I should say I wrote the scenario. But as the old addage goes, it's easier to kill a bird in the nest than in the air.

Typical launch range for AIM-120D was at 50nm (outer edge of AA-12 envelope and well into the SLAMMER's), then peel away while a second element of fighters further out kept radar contact. This kept the AMRAAMs from having really bad kinematic penalties, with a final pH of around 35% as I recall.

Nice meat grinder setup. f4 pilot?

Thanks!

Not a pilot. Just an unreformable micro-managing OCD victim. [:)]

ORIGINAL: RadishRabbit

ORIGINAL: Primarchx

I lost 1 F/A-18E by the end. In full disclosure I should say I wrote the scenario. But as the old addage goes, it's easier to kill a bird in the nest than in the air.

Typical launch range for AIM-120D was at 50nm (outer edge of AA-12 envelope and well into the SLAMMER's), then peel away while a second element of fighters further out kept radar contact. This kept the AMRAAMs from having really bad kinematic penalties, with a final pH of around 35% as I recall.

Nice meat grinder setup. f4 pilot?