Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: jglazier

Thanks for the comments, wodin. I would still like to know for sure, because I'm not sure it's the game for me if you don't get to select your targets to attack.

I'm still fuzzy on the WEGO and variable turn length, etc. I have a basic understanding of it, but I still don't see how it matters how long you have to wait for your turn. Once your turn comes up, I am asking if you get to choose your units, and select what enemy counter they will attack. Or, does the A.I. do this for you.

How much control do you have over your units?

I bought the game on release day -- something I never do.

No, you don't get to select your units' targets. And frankly, until you asked, I never even realized that you didn't or couldn't. Once you start playing the game, you'll realize that at this scale that's not something you want, or could, do.

As others have mentioned, "modern" war is fast and deadly. An entire Russian company of tanks can get chewed up in one turn. And from a practical standpoint, rarely do you see the same enemy units at the end of one orders phase that you saw at the beginning of the last.

You issue orders (movement and formation) to your platoons and companies. They execute as best they can. There's no room or even need in the game to individually target the enemy units.

ORIGINAL: jack54

There really isn't much micro-management if that's what you like, you basically give various type movement orders and let your subordinates take over, but 'Watching' the turn resolution can get quite intense... I stopped watching incoming Artillery I can't take it anymore.

yep, or when airpower catches your (you thought) concealed deception move when in march order ... hah

for what its worth, I like the abstraction of not doing target selection. I've not yet looked at what units pick to fire at and thought that is stupid. The order cycle and process to me is the key that makes the armies different. With the Soviets you need to plan over a longer time frame, NATO tends to operate quicker (unless you've sent your Hinds to hunt their HQ formations ... now that did work [8D] )

Thanks BROJD and loki100, I love jumping into a thread and seeing players answering for other players. [&o]

The extensive micro-management of Steel Panthers is what is leading me away from the game after a very long time. Don't get me wrong, I still love it and it will always have a place on my HD. I just don't have the patience for that level of control anymore, picking and choosing each target, plotting each hex moved, etc. I also have CotA but I just cannot seem to get into it.

Honestly, this game reminds me so much of PanzerLeader/PanzerBlitz but modern and which I have just recently gotten back into. I'm really thinking this game is gonna fill a spot for me, that and it covers the time I was in the FGR with 8th ID.

My only issue with target selection is that in some cases I've had units assault past Soviet units without engaging, resulting in a lone enemy unit wrecking havoc in my rear areas.

There's no room or even need in the game to individually target the enemy units.

Couldn't agree more with this statement. One thing I really like about FPC:RS is that you can't micromanage what every unit does. Sometimes you end up just wanting to bash the hell out of your computer while yelling at the little chits moving around because things aren't turning out as you expected. Something that I would expect an actual commander would be experiencing in a similar situation, except replace the word computer for subordinate.

You can direct the course of the battle but you cannot "control" it. Though I hate the term "realism" when it comes to war games, at the end of the day they are for entertainment war most certainly is not, FPC:RS is probably the most realistic simulation of this scale of warfare that I have come across.

ORIGINAL: MikeAP

My only issue with target selection is that in some cases I've had units assault past Soviet units without engaging, resulting in a lone enemy unit wrecking havoc in my rear areas.

That is great news to my ears. [&o]

Unless we are playing a game of chess, where everything is known and the game is very structured, I want the mistakes.

In my military, business, and wargaming careers it's always been, "whoever makes the least mistakes wins."

I have a very large military history library. There are literally thousands of incidents in those books of the situation you just described. Where a unit made a mistake.

That is one of the primary reasons for using a WEGO system. It allows for mistakes to be made. If you are looking for a game of chess, this game is not for you. If you are looking for the fluid, ever changing, plan doesn't survive the first shot, change the plan on the run game, you're in the right place.

In that respect, we tried to make it as much of a sim as possible. In the respect of the fun factor, we tried to make it as much of a game as possible.

You are going to be playing my scenarios for the most part when you play the game, don't skip Al's scenario though it's worth your time, and I was brought in to do the scenarios, but I'm a gamer too. Many of the features and execution of game play are things I had a hand in. The entire team are all avid gamers. We know what we like. We created what we like and have now shared that with you! [8D]

Good Hunting.

MR

I just wanted to say, after my strong opinion against the game due to not being able to select targets, I bought the game based on all the excellent opinions and positive comments on this thread.

So far, so good. I have barely gotten into it yet, but I think I am really going to enjoy it.

Thanks again for helping me change my mind.

Cool..I will hopefully follow you soon.

I'd never recommend a game if I have the slightest doubt they might not enjoy it.

ORIGINAL: jglazier

I just wanted to say, after my strong opinion against the game due to not being able to select targets, I bought the game based on all the excellent opinions and positive comments on this thread.

So far, so good. I have barely gotten into it yet, but I think I am really going to enjoy it.

Thanks again for helping me change my mind.

Thanks guys! Things seem to be jumping out of the gate well. A couple odd bugs we need to squash and we see a few improvements/additions we need to pursue based on user feedback. Enjoy the war!

I just wanted to follow up one more time and say this game is absolutely fantastic! I am still playing through the tutorial, and I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm having fun figuring everything out. I can tell this game will provide a lifetime of enjoyment. I look forward to learning the game and getting into the meaty missions.

I hope this game is supported and upgraded with new features, and more missions and campaigns.

Brilliant! I'm so glad I bought it.

ORIGINAL: jglazier

I hope this game is supported and upgraded with new features, and more missions and campaigns.

That's the plan...starting very soon. I wouldn't be surprised to see new material with the patch release.

Brilliant! I'm so glad I bought it.

We're so glad you bought it as well! [&o]


Good Hunting.

MR

SO what are your thoughts now about not being able to micro manage firing orders?

ORIGINAL: jglazier

I just wanted to follow up one more time and say this game is absolutely fantastic! I am still playing through the tutorial, and I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm having fun figuring everything out. I can tell this game will provide a lifetime of enjoyment. I look forward to learning the game and getting into the meaty missions.

I hope this game is supported and upgraded with new features, and more missions and campaigns.

Brilliant! I'm so glad I bought it.

The WEGO variable-length-turns system of this game is revolutionary !

It's completely non-linear. A new Paradigm in wargames ( * )

Forget micromanagement, become tactical. Take command and enjoy !
I love watching the turn resolution phase. It's so realistic !

( * ) Well, it started 8 years ago with the legendary FPG, its ancestor ... just have to hope the game will be supported and will continue to evolve with time.

ORIGINAL: wodin

SO what are your thoughts now about not being able to micro manage firing orders?

ORIGINAL: jglazier

I just wanted to follow up one more time and say this game is absolutely fantastic! I am still playing through the tutorial, and I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm having fun figuring everything out. I can tell this game will provide a lifetime of enjoyment. I look forward to learning the game and getting into the meaty missions.

I hope this game is supported and upgraded with new features, and more missions and campaigns.

Brilliant! I'm so glad I bought it.

Well, I will always prefer to directly control my units and give them specific targets and such, but this game is a different animal. I also play a lot of boardgames, and micro-managing is the name of the game for that genre. It will always have a place in my heart.

But, I have games where I can directly control everything (SSGs Battles in Normandy and that series, Panzer Corps series, etc.). Flashpoint Campaigns is completely unique, and I get it now. It serves a different purpose, and is just as much fun as the direct control games.

Onwards!
-=Jeff

ORIGINAL: jglazier


Well, I will always prefer to directly control my units and give them specific targets and such, but this game is a different animal. I also play a lot of boardgames, and micro-managing is the name of the game for that genre. It will always have a place in my heart.

But, I have games where I can directly control everything (SSGs Battles in Normandy and that series, Panzer General series, etc.). Flashpoint Campaigns is completely unique, and I get it now. It serves a different purpose, and is just as much fun as the direct control games.

Onwards!
-=Jeff

FPC is very different. It's hard to explain how you can take away control from the player and still have it be immersive and fun.

But Rob did! [&o]

Good Hunting.

MR

It would be nice though to be able to designate specific fire support units and air support elements as under AI control or not, rather than have to do it all or nothing. For instance, I'd love to keep my heavy division or corps-level arty under my personal control, while letting the AI shoot the smaller stuff. Ditto for air strikes. Though I have to say most of the time the AI chooses the targets I would choose, more or less.

It would be nice though to be able to designate specific fire support units and air support elements as under AI control or not, rather than have to do it all or nothing. For instance, I'd love to keep my heavy division or corps-level arty under my personal control, while letting the AI shoot the smaller stuff. Ditto for air strikes. Though I have to say most of the time the AI chooses the targets I would choose, more or less.

+1

Guys, even if the FSCC is on, you can still give overriding missions orders that it will perform in place of FSCC generated targets. The nice thing about having FSCC on is when your missions end they will order new missions if there is still time to next orders.