Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Mynok


It happens all the time. Anytime a new game comes out, the AI whackos come out in force. And by that I mean the ones whose sole purpose in life seems to be to bitch and complain about it or the lack of it as often and in as many places as possible.

Us AI wackos account for the bulk of Matrix revenues. The loud & obnoxious anti-AI folks like you may be disproportionately represented in the forums but they know who butters their bread. Your lot cost them sales.

ORIGINAL: Fleming
What games were ever published here without AI?

Didn't Empires in Arms come out without an AI? Or maybe it had an AI that was complete crap?

ORIGINAL: mjk428
Us AI wackos account for the bulk of Matrix revenues. The loud & obnoxious anti-AI folks like you may be disproportionately represented in the forums but they know who butters their bread. Your lot cost them sales.

I typically mainly play against the AI as well, but I'll be very surprised if a small dev team like this can come up with a decent AI for such a complicated game. Personally I'm not anti-AI at all but sometimes you gotta be realistic.

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

ORIGINAL: aspqrz

And what purpose is that?

If you mean 'as an aide memoire for players of the boardgame' then ... maybe ...

On the other hand, there is significant evidence that the game has attracted the attention/interest of many people who neither own the original boardgame nor are interested in boardgames in general and who see it as a *computer* game.

I suppose if Matrix had absolutely no interest in selling it to the second market share indicated, and it seems that that may be true, then you are probably right ... but even their marketing people can't be that stupid ... or can they?

Phil

You're right as I would never buy the game for $99 without an AI.

warspite1

Wow - that's thread no.4 and counting.....

Nice to Know you read my every word. [;)]

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore





You're right as I would never buy the game for $99 without an AI.

warspite1

Wow - that's thread no.4 and counting.....

Nice to Know you read my every word. [;)]

warspite1

[;)]

ORIGINAL: AbwehrX

Bah! You goofy fools. WiF is the best game in all of human history & youre whining about an AI?!.....Off with your heads!! [:'(]

Your final statement retracts from your first statement. The world's greatest game will have a great AI. Thus, WIF will not be the worlds greatest game.

ORIGINAL: Fleming

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Lately none. But fear not, they shall complain about the one they get. [:D]

Mkay, what about not so lately then?
What games were ever published here without AI?

I think he's confused Matrix with VASSAL. Their modules aren't $100 apiece though, their free.

The whole idea of having a computer game is so we can play it solitaire. The fact is it is difficult to find people in your area to have the time or interest to set up a war game. So the whole idea of having a AI is important to most of us who actually have a life.

The game looks overpriced according to my standards. PBEM and AI are a must. The art (minus the counters)looks grainy instead of soft and pleasant but I can get past that thinking the community will upgrade it. The interface also looks extremely dated.

The people that shelled out for the product more power to them but for those of us that don't purchase for nostalgia's sake and don't fancy paying 100 dollars plus to play against themselves, I don't see many outside the first wave buying. Especially since Vassal is out there competing against this version.

With War in the West on the horizon and Lock n Loads game soon to be released it's just too much competition for the entertainment dollar.

ORIGINAL: LRRP

The whole idea of having a computer game is so we can play it solitaire.

In fairness, probably not this one, assuming you mean solitaire in the sense of 'against an AI', anyway. The intention has always been more of a 'Vassal ++' to allow distance play, or just more manageable play, of WiF.

That said, the devs seem to disagree with AbwehrX. There are considerable numbers of people, and potential buyers who haven't played the boardgame (including me) who would welcome something at least functional as an aid in learning the game if nothing else.

I've probably missed the answer, but when the AI is added will it be an additional charge? I might be willing to pony up the money now if I know I won't be charged again in the future.

I don't really understand this vassal comment.I can never make it work for games I don't know inside out.And talk about clunky interfaces. ..

In Vassal if you set up all the opening units incorrectly will the game tell you? Its a serious question as I have no idea if the setup under vassal allows the Ark Royal to start the game in Berlin.
in my limited time with wif so far, I know that that isn't possible.

I'm guessing it's a ways off. If it was close they wouldn't have launched it yet.

ORIGINAL: Arnir

I've probably missed the answer, but when the AI is added will it be an additional charge? I might be willing to pony up the money now if I know I won't be charged again in the future.

My understanding of the conversations, is there will be a different version (WIF 2.0).

New player pay a premium price (current + X) for the AI version
Existing players can optionally pay X (or X-5 or something) to upgrade

From that point on bug fixes etc only come out for the AI version.

ORIGINAL: catwhoorg

ORIGINAL: Arnir

I've probably missed the answer, but when the AI is added will it be an additional charge? I might be willing to pony up the money now if I know I won't be charged again in the future.

My understanding of the conversations, is there will be a different version (WIF 2.0).

New player pay a premium price (current + X) for the AI version
Existing players can optionally pay X (or X-5 or something) to upgrade

From that point on bug fixes etc only come out for the AI version.

Thanks for the info. The value of X will be quite important to me. [;)]

I am considering purchasing WiF. I have never played the boardgame. I am unsure if I could play a netgame, and solitaire vs myself is ok for learning the game system, but eventually I desire to play against someone other than myself. So that means I need an AI or more importantly PBEM. If it will be years (2+?) or never (as suggested by someone in this thread), than purchasing this game would be a disappointment. Don't get me wrong, I cut my teeth on Afrika Korps and Third Reich boardgames, but I LIKE playing on a computer. Because this game looks like the most awesome game I've seen in some time, I think I will make the move to buy it now. But I too would like to know if/when I will see the AI/PBEM option.

ORIGINAL: baloo7777

I am considering purchasing WiF. I have never played the boardgame. I am unsure if I could play a netgame, and solitaire vs myself is ok for learning the game system, but eventually I desire to play against someone other than myself. So that means I need an AI or more importantly PBEM. If it will be years (2+?) or never (as suggested by someone in this thread), than purchasing this game would be a disappointment. Don't get me wrong, I cut my teeth on Afrika Korps and Third Reich boardgames, but I LIKE playing on a computer. Because this game looks like the most awesome game I've seen in some time, I think I will make the move to buy it now. But I too would like to know if/when I will see the AI/PBEM option.

My promises on When has a very poor track record. [8|]

All I can tell you is that I dearly want to write the AI Opponent code/scripts. A lot of work has been done on both PBEM and AIO, but a lot more remains to be done.

My promises on When has a very poor track record.

All I can tell you is that I dearly want to write the AI Opponent code/scripts. A lot of work has been done on both PBEM and AIO, but a lot more remains to be done.

Thanks for the honest answer. I will still get this awesome game and await the PBEM/AI option. I think the work you've done is excellent!

Believe it or not there are some great games available without an AI. Here is one.

Descion Games' War in Europe (which will NEVER have an AI)

As most AI's suck, I am surprised so many people as so against this game not having one. Would you feel any better about the game if it HAD an AI and it sucked? Would that make the price better? Or would you then be complaining about how crappy the AI is and for this price it should be a lot better?

While I am definately not happy about having to pay more money later for an AI, I would much prefer having a release without an AI that sucked and give the team to design one that would be better. Plus on of the huge benefits of doing a release without an AI is that everyone that has the game can now make suggestions and actually help with the AI creation process. So in reality, WE will have a major impact on the development of the AI by our comments and feedback. Steve (the developer) has already stated he wants this kind of feedback from us. So what is not to like about that?

I would much rather be involved with the AI creation process versus having a reall great game damaged by a crappy AI, like Empire in Arms was. So given a choice of having a game released without an AI versus an AI that sucked, I'll take no AI every time.

I really think this may an age issue as well. I grew up playing board games solitare quite a bit. matter of fact i am currently playing a 5 player board right now playing all 5 positions. So for me not having an AI is not the end of the universe. I can tell you from my experience, that playing all the sides of any game solitare is much better than playing any game with a crappy AI. But that is just me. [:)]. If you have never played a multiplayer game solitare, then you should really give it a shot sometime. If you have and did not enjoy it, then I totally understand. However, if you never have, i suggest you try it. You just might surprise yourself [:D]

ORIGINAL: ezz

I don't really understand this vassal comment.I can never make it work for games I don't know inside out.And talk about clunky interfaces. ..

In Vassal if you set up all the opening units incorrectly will the game tell you? Its a serious question as I have no idea if the setup under vassal allows the Ark Royal to start the game in Berlin.
in my limited time with wif so far, I know that that isn't possible.

This is the crux of the issue. If you are a grognard, then you can play the Vassal version. If you want to ensure you (and your opponent) are playing by the rules, then you need MWiF.

ORIGINAL: jerrystead
I think he's confused Matrix with VASSAL. Their modules aren't $100 apiece though, their free.

So Vassal possesses freedom?[:(]

For a less than talented litigator, you ought to study up on English grammar.