Matrix Games Forums

cns...

here is where i am with this scenario....

i am not closing with red group... i am doing all i can to remain undetected... i am moving slow and quite.... my subs are moving into position... mostly in the layer where they are harder to detect... occasionally they go above and below the layer at creep to listen for red subs... i will not engage with my subs until i have greatly reduced red group abilities....

i have waited till all my buccaneers are ready before launching a strike on the red group.. i may load 2 of them up with martel arm load outs.. however they may have a difficult time getting in close enough to launch ... i should be able to get 4 or more sorties in with the game time remaining... although munitions will be a problem.... but after 2 strike missions they should be pretty hurt...

check out my formation... it is conservative... biased for AAW protection...

here is an attachment so you can see what im up to.....

Something important to keep in mind is learning the game with the tools available. If all you are concerned with is "cheating", you won't learn. The editor mode is a god-send as a teaching/learning tool. The point of Command is less game and more teaching tool. You might be playing the wrong game if all you are concerned about is the score. In the end, its about learning and applying what you learn. Play a scenario through once. Go back and change units, positions, weapons, etc. to evaluate the impact.

If there are some scenarios you really want to play blind, make sure to use other scenarios as your learning tool. Sort of like in real-life, studying your weapons and your enemies capabilities in detail will increase the likelihood of coming out on top. I probably spend a couple days studying the layout of a large scenario before even setting my first mission. I then spend hours setting missions, EMCOM, ROE, and WRA. If I get hosed, I start tinkering with the set ups and positions to see what would have worked better. Many times I will go in and move units around to get more of a feel for the situation developing. I hate it when a scenarios designer leaves my deck empty, enemy subs inside my screen, and bombers less than 100 miles out. But I use it to figure out what works and what doesn't.

The short of it is players that struggle wit Command tend to want to come in and start blasting things. There are some scenarios that fit that bill. But to really understand the systems and tactics, you have to use the scenario as a learning tool.

ORIGINAL: magi

cns...

Well.... I would have to see an attachment to assess the condition of the rest of your group.... and where the strike came from.. their surface group.. an SSGN... or the air...?

The thing I noticed that I really didn't like at the beginning other than the position of the British group... Was design of the formation..... The aa shooters are spread out way to much with little ability of defense in depth to defeat a serious strike... And ASW ships are set up way to close.. minimizing their chance of detecting subs before they get target solutions to launch missiles/ torpedoes......

What I think would be interesting for you to do is..... To go into editor mode... load a save game previous to the incoming strike.... Reorganize your formation.. Bringing your shooters in... One of the best ones within a few nm's of the invincible... a couple others on estimated primary threat axis of in coming strike... Set on fixed stations.... establishing a air defense in depth....

The two best ASW ships with towed array sonar out front on sprint and drift.. on relative stations..... The rest in as closer ASW screens......

It will interesting to see if a better formation allows you to survive the strike and possibly pick up the red sub.....

Ok heres' where i'm at currently- as you'll be able to see my carrier did sink and the SAG is heading South. It was an airstrike from Badgers with AS-4's that hit my carrier and RFA Fort Grange.

You are so right about the formation of the SAG, its terrible for AA defence especially with coming up against these soviet anti ship missiles. I never actually tinkered with the formation editor before until i just loaded your save, saw your formation and i decided to try clicking the RFA Fort Grange in formation editor and setting fixed station point and voila, it moves to it. Why havent i done this before. I also never tinkered with sprint and drift before, this has given me extra tactical options now thanks for enlightening me.

The only save i have for this scenario is the one attached to this post which is the most recent one- where i'm at now which is a shame but in future i'll make different saves at certain points for sure.

ORIGINAL: magi

cns...

here is where i am with this scenario....

i am not closing with red group... i am doing all i can to remain undetected... i am moving slow and quite.... my subs are moving into position... mostly in the layer where they are harder to detect... occasionally they go above and below the layer at creep to listen for red subs... i will not engage with my subs until i have greatly reduced red group abilities....

i have waited till all my buccaneers are ready before launching a strike on the red group.. i may load 2 of them up with martel arm load outs.. however they may have a difficult time getting in close enough to launch ... i should be able to get 4 or more sorties in with the game time remaining... although munitions will be a problem.... but after 2 strike missions they should be pretty hurt...

check out my formation... it is conservative... biased for AAW protection...

here is an attachment so you can see what im up to.....

Looks really good i like the formation of your SAG. You'll see in my save that i set my subs ASW patrol missions close to my SAG for extra ASW protection and i have them at periscope depth so they spot anything but also can use their ELINT and i've gauged the soviet subs will stay above the layer to listen out for my SAG so i thought it wouldnt be a good idea to have them listen out below the layer but maybe you're right to check below it as they have more than one sub...maybe one of them is set below the layer, or has a plotted course that has waypoints set at different depths.

Same as you with the Buccaneers i waited until all 12 were ready with Sea Eagles then gave them strike missions to smash the Kiev in two flights of six which worked. Also a flight of two Nimrods with Harpoons sunk one of the Sovremenny destroyers but it was literally not long after these strikes that their Badgers came and smashed my (not so) Invincible carrier and RFA Fort Grange. Score now is -200 disaster and before i lost the Invincible it was 800 points Major Victory...lost 1000 points for losing the carrier. I'll get 100 points for each soviet ship or sub sunk and maybe more for the Slava class cruiser so i could still turn this round to at least a draw perhaps but with the carrier i lost four Harriers and all of its ASW and AEW assets.

I'm prioritizing finding their subs now with giving my subs ASW patrol missions though i've had to give two of my Nimrods AEW/recon patrol missions due to losing those on the carrier which reduces my ASW ops slightly- before i had two ASW patrol missions for the Nimrods now i've had to reduce that to one. You'll see the one Nimrod set for a recon patrol mission has been given a Maritime surveillance loadout. I altered my short range ASW patrol missions slightly with the Lynx's that i have onboard the Frigates and Destroyers- before each mission had just two ref points which wasnt enough and these Lynx's dont have MAD or dipping Sonar so they have to have a patrol zone and not just two ref points to fly between to make them drop their Sonobuoys.

What do you think to how i have set my missions on the whole besides the formation of my SAG?

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Something important to keep in mind is learning the game with the tools available. If all you are concerned with is "cheating", you won't learn. The editor mode is a god-send as a teaching/learning tool. The point of Command is less game and more teaching tool. You might be playing the wrong game if all you are concerned about is the score. In the end, its about learning and applying what you learn. Play a scenario through once. Go back and change units, positions, weapons, etc. to evaluate the impact.

If there are some scenarios you really want to play blind, make sure to use other scenarios as your learning tool. Sort of like in real-life, studying your weapons and your enemies capabilities in detail will increase the likelihood of coming out on top. I probably spend a couple days studying the layout of a large scenario before even setting my first mission. I then spend hours setting missions, EMCOM, ROE, and WRA. If I get hosed, I start tinkering with the set ups and positions to see what would have worked better. Many times I will go in and move units around to get more of a feel for the situation developing. I hate it when a scenarios designer leaves my deck empty, enemy subs inside my screen, and bombers less than 100 miles out. But I use it to figure out what works and what doesn't.

The short of it is players that struggle wit Command tend to want to come in and start blasting things. There are some scenarios that fit that bill. But to really understand the systems and tactics, you have to use the scenario as a learning tool.

Good points you've made and i do use the editor a lot to experiment with what works and just discovering things like a certain units' sensor detection range. Like earlier i experimented in the editor with a Type 052C destroyer up against an F-22 Raptor and the destroyers' FCR couldnt detect the Raptor until it was fairly close. But then i tried an F-16 and the destroyers' FCR detected it much sooner. So i do use the editor in that respect but i guess i havent used it to its fullest potential which is what you and Mikmyk have suggested if i am to learn properly. In future i'll make more saves in scenarios so i can go back and try different things and use the editor. It is a lot of fun using the editor and like you say, an excellent tool.