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RE: Extremely high fuel consumption for ACM

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:31 pm
by Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Reread s.6.2.13 of the manual.

Also s.6.2.3.

Alfred

Also re-read these sections, and I guess I'm a bit slower than average. I can't find anywhere how a ship can use more fuel than it can possibly expend as determined by it's movement potential for that day. If it can, why?

This is a huge issue for players on the Japanese side especially. It becomes disadvantageous to maintain minefields, where in reality this was certainly not the case, especially those guarding home ports.

An ACM is certainly not going to be operated 24/7 solidly with no breaks either. Does it have three crews rotating shifts? So how can it use so much fuel?

It seems to me an ACM would be out occasionally to check the fields, maintain them extensively after storms or other changes to the environment, but certainly not every waking minute. Am I completely off base here?

Can we get back to talking numbers, in terms of units of fuel used by ACMs per day per minefield? This is making me rethink how I'm using mines. If it's 20.5 units of fuel, per type of mine at each base, per ACM, per day... that is very much a non-trivial amount of fuel (and therefore supplies). Especially considering how many ports in Japan start with minefields and ACMs. Just one port with 4 ACMs and one large minefield that they're tending (like say, Tokyo) will burn up almost 250,000 fuel in 1500 turns. Would you rather have 250,000 supply via HI production, or maintain those 4 minefields for the entire war? I think I know my answer...

RE: Extremely high fuel consumption for ACM

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:39 am
by michaelm75au
If the ACM was in a TF sitting in an ocean hex, it would burn 40x hex cruise speed in endurance as per manual 6.12.3
Changing from port fuel to ship endurance is in line with how normal ships from a TF in a hex are suppose to work.
That is the change I have made in 1123x8

RE: Extremely high fuel consumption for ACM

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:40 am
by obvert
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Reread s.6.2.13 of the manual.

Also s.6.2.3.

Alfred

Also re-read these sections, and I guess I'm a bit slower than average. I can't find anywhere how a ship can use more fuel than it can possibly expend as determined by it's movement potential for that day. If it can, why?

This is a huge issue for players on the Japanese side especially. It becomes disadvantageous to maintain minefields, where in reality this was certainly not the case, especially those guarding home ports.

An ACM is certainly not going to be operated 24/7 solidly with no breaks either. Does it have three crews rotating shifts? So how can it use so much fuel?

It seems to me an ACM would be out occasionally to check the fields, maintain them extensively after storms or other changes to the environment, but certainly not every waking minute. Am I completely off base here?

Can we get back to talking numbers, in terms of units of fuel used by ACMs per day per minefield? This is making me rethink how I'm using mines. If it's 20.5 units of fuel, per type of mine at each base, per ACM, per day... that is very much a non-trivial amount of fuel (and therefore supplies). Especially considering how many ports in Japan start with minefields and ACMs. Just one port with 4 ACMs and one large minefield that they're tending (like say, Tokyo) will burn up almost 250,000 fuel in 1500 turns. Would you rather have 250,000 supply via HI production, or maintain those 4 minefields for the entire war? I think I know my answer...

I rely on you for the numbers! I know my answer too!

RE: Extremely high fuel consumption for ACM

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:55 pm
by Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: obvert




Also re-read these sections, and I guess I'm a bit slower than average. I can't find anywhere how a ship can use more fuel than it can possibly expend as determined by it's movement potential for that day. If it can, why?

This is a huge issue for players on the Japanese side especially. It becomes disadvantageous to maintain minefields, where in reality this was certainly not the case, especially those guarding home ports.

An ACM is certainly not going to be operated 24/7 solidly with no breaks either. Does it have three crews rotating shifts? So how can it use so much fuel?

It seems to me an ACM would be out occasionally to check the fields, maintain them extensively after storms or other changes to the environment, but certainly not every waking minute. Am I completely off base here?

Can we get back to talking numbers, in terms of units of fuel used by ACMs per day per minefield? This is making me rethink how I'm using mines. If it's 20.5 units of fuel, per type of mine at each base, per ACM, per day... that is very much a non-trivial amount of fuel (and therefore supplies). Especially considering how many ports in Japan start with minefields and ACMs. Just one port with 4 ACMs and one large minefield that they're tending (like say, Tokyo) will burn up almost 250,000 fuel in 1500 turns. Would you rather have 250,000 supply via HI production, or maintain those 4 minefields for the entire war? I think I know my answer...

I rely on you for the numbers! I know my answer too!

If it's just a swap to using ship endurance (random 1-40) per minefield, then we're looking at, for the To'su class ACMs, 23 endurance gone before it uses a point of fuel. So on average, just more than 1 point of fuel per day per minefield per ACM. If that's the change. I think I missed michael's previous post.

RE: Extremely high fuel consumption for ACM

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:28 pm
by obvert
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


If it's just a swap to using ship endurance (random 1-40) per minefield, then we're looking at, for the To'su class ACMs, 23 endurance gone before it uses a point of fuel. So on average, just more than 1 point of fuel per day per minefield per ACM. If that's the change. I think I missed michael's previous post.

Yes, so to summarize there was a very big problem with how this was being calculated which has been fixed. Michael again has come through with a really useful fix. I'll have to let my opponent GJ know as we might really want to update for his sake.

RE: Extremely high fuel consumption for ACM

Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:49 pm
by rustysi
Sorry didn't want to post here.