Matrix Games Forums

@ Aeson

You're quite right, I forgot to include that detail. But I was thinking that either one is playing with automated designs or one is actively using the design list. If the former then the assistant will make colony ship designs, and if the latter then the game warns you about not having a colony ship design.

But I was thinking that either one is playing with automated designs or one is actively using the design list.

Not necessarily. I normally play with mixed design automation, leaving some of the ships and stations in the hands of the computer and just focusing on manually designing the ships I feel like designing. I often leave the private sector ships to be designed by the computer while always personally controlling the design of the naval vessels, I don't think I've ever bothered with the designs of the construction ships and colony ships, and while I normally control the designs of the spaceports and research stations I rarely bother with the other stations.

Regardless, you're right that the game will warn you if you're missing an important design while you have the tech for it and and visit the design screen, whether or not design automation is active.

He complained about a fundamental feature of the game; mining. He also acted as if it was ludicrous that he didn't have a free colony ship handed to him on a silver platter AFTER complaining about needing to spend money to keep from getting attacked by pirates in a setting that is built around that feature. To me, he didn't and still does not sound serious and i have a deep hatred of people who come to dev forums and talk like that because more often than not good games are ruined because the devs hear and act on these complaints. A fantastic example of how this can happen is world of warcraft. The game was a decent challenge and it was very kind and rewarding to those players that put forth their time and effort to actually organize and do the most challenging aspects of the game. Unfortunately a small number of players complained about this, and how they didn't have time to do these things or about how they wanted it to be easier. Blizzard make a nuisance number of changes to the game that made it drastically easier and considerably less fun and rewarding to actually do the challenging stuff, what little there is now of that. I passionately HATE people who ask for things to be easier or comment about how its bad that it is not easier. Gamers that don't have time for or are not good at games that are challenging should play games that are easier or take less time to play and leave the more challenging games to those of us they are suited to. I'm sorry if my view or response causes any issues, but that's just how i feel about it. Less 'hardcore' gamers should not try and ruin it for more serious gamers and should just stick to what they are good at/have time for.

He complained about a fundamental feature of the game; mining.

He didn't sound like he fully grasped the mechanics, though. And it would indeed be annoying if you couldn't even order the designs before you've got the necessary resources, wouldn't it?

He also acted as if it was ludicrous that he didn't have a free colony ship handed to him

In fairness, it takes a bit of time to get used to the harshness of life in DW. How did you feel the first time you got an abandoned capital ship marker, went there, and then witnessed some pirate bastard snatch it right in front of you? Pretty damn annoyed, right? So suppose AAAtoys is talking from a perspective of excessive emotion? We've all been there. There's really not that much reason to flail him for it, is there?

To me, he didn't and still does not sound serious and i have a deep hatred of people who come to dev forums and talk like that because more often than not good games are ruined because the devs hear and act on these complaints.

I hear you. And it's certainly possible that he's a petulant momma's boy whiner who wants everything designed around his fanatic love of cheesecake. If that's the case then yeah, giving him some acidic remarks is well deserved. There are two main reasons why I'm not too keen on going there just yet, though.

1) This game is essentially Elliot's baby. Whiny crap from a single user isn't going to make him change his mind about what he wants. It might pursuade him a bit in how to implement certain features, such as how balanced area weapons are, but that's about all it's going to do. This is his game, his vision, his call, and being a bit of a niche title, it's unlikely to be watered down by pop fanboy rubbish.

2) It's very possible that AAAToys is simply frustrated and upset with what he perceives as harsh mechanics combined with limited gameplay info. Maybe the game is for him, maybe it isnt, but if he's simply being emotional about something that irks him then going hard on him won't make things better. And let's be fair, we all react differently when we're annoyed. Some people start breaking stuff, some people start shouting at everything that moves.

I passionately HATE people who ask for things to be easier or comment about how its bad that it is not easier. Gamers that don't have time for or are not good at games that are challenging should play games that are easier or take less time to play and leave the more challenging games to those of us they are suited to. I'm sorry if my view or response causes any issues, but that's just how i feel about it. Less 'hardcore' gamers should not try and ruin it for more serious gamers and should just stick to what they are good at/have time for.

Being an elitist about gaming is, in the grand scheme of things, perhaps a bit optimistic. There are people to whom gaming is a profession, but for most of us it's really just a casual thing we do for fun. And your right to have fun is no more or less important than my right or Aeson's right or Icemania's right or even AAAtoys' right.

What does that mean? It means you're technically being a hypocrite if you don't also HATE people who ask for things to be harder or how it's bad that it isn't harder. Hatred of people who managed to force drastic changes in games you like goes both ways, and being "hardcore" isn't inherently "better" or more worthy of "respect" than being "softcore". We're talking about games here, after all, and the sad truth is that 99% of gaming is a complete waste of time that accomplishes absolutely nothing*.

I say that despite probably having invested more time into gaming than most, by the way. But if I'd invested that time into my studies, I'd have graduated with a flat A average and been well on my way to solve world poverty or the fossil fuel energy problem. And if all the people who think about optimal WoW strategies had put their minds to better use, we'd probably have a cure for cancer.

I agree that it's a pain in the ass when newbies start complaining about things just because they don't know how they work, and it's really annoying when that resuls in changes that mess things up for those who have been playing the game for a long time, but it's not just hard games being made easier that is annoying. It's also when the opposite happens and a relatively casual game ends up becoming a right pain in the butt.

Since we're sharing examples, here's one of my own. I played some Diablo 2 back in the day, but I was always a single player kind of guy. And it was a right pain when all those online clowns whined about how Hell wasn't difficult enough once they'd obtained a ton of hacked gear that simply wasn't realistically available for SP gamers.

You could argue that I could simply play more but that's the thing: I did not want to grind the living hell out of the same area over and over and over and over and over and over for six hours a day. I didn't want to use a bot to do it for me. I just wanted to progress through the game and beat the snot out of anything that came at me, and those "hardcore" clowns were screaming for that to be harder and harder, just because they had access to gear I couldn't possibly get.

*) A small disclaimer is in order, I suppose. Personally I learned a great deal of English from being a passionate gamer, and games can of course serve as practice for a great number of skills. DW, for instance, trains reasoning, priority balancing, and detail management. You can learn stuff from playing games, but that doesn't mean they're actually worth the time investment.

Well the actual value of gaming differs from person to person. For some, it could be viewed as a waste of time but for others like myself its almost like a necessity.

In D2 you mentioned hacked gear? What do you mean? I played online for many years and did not encounter any players using hacked gear. To my knowledge we were all just very well designed pre planned toons with high end legendary gear.

I generally if not never don't request a game to be harder. I choose what games i play based on their challenge and immersion. I never ask for increased/decreased difficulty. If what i'm looking for isn't in the game i move on, because i know that others enjoy the game as it is and i would not want to risk that just for my own selfish gain. Even when i started a stink about the shatterforce laser, i wasn't requesting anything. I simply wanted to know why it was where it was on the tech tree. The difference between that and this is that this guy actually said and i quote "How rediculous that the game makes you do all that and doesn't at least give you your first colony ship for free." These are the lines that cause games to change for the worse. He's suggesting that because you have to develop technology, mine resources and pay off pirates that you should get something complex for free to compensate. Because you are being realistic, you must be unrealistic in order to balance it out and make it easier. That makes NO sense.

Regarding D2, I'm not really all that sure how (or even if) the closed Bnet players duped their stuff, but it seemed to me that a lot of things were more common than it should be, given just how rarely it spawned. And regardless, it sure is easier to gather the right pile of stuff if you can convert that semi-cool necro drop you can't use with your ama to a Buriza or what have you. As for open, I don't believe for a second that it wasn't mainly hacked stuff being passed around.

The point is, certain styles of play had a much easier time getting their hands on combinations of loot that obviously made the game easier and these kind of people were constantly begging for bigger badasses, even though the game was quite hard on /players 8 SP without pre-found items and I'd say plain frustrating if you tried doing that on hardcore.

Anyway, getting a bit more back on track, I'm not saying that people shouldn't have fun with games but merely that I don't think it's entirely fair to look down on people just because they prefer a more softcore approach, which you sounded a bit like you were inclined to do. It seems like you agree with that point of view, though, which is nice. One thing less to fight over.

And I agree that the suggestion for a free colonizer makes very little sense, but suppose he was arguing out of frustration. He felt that it took a ridiculous amount of effort to get a colony ship built and ready and would like to at least be able to stort colonizing space a little bit before being thrown head first into all that trouble. That makes a reasonable amount of sense, doesn't it?

We've both played this game a lot more than he has and so we know that it's not actually a big problem to get a colony ship ready, assuming pirates don't tear you a new one before you even get the tech, but he doesn't have our experience and therefore his premises for drawing conclusions end up being a bit off. Once he gets more experience and learns more about the mechanics, his conclusions will likely also change. If at that point he still feels that changes that make very little sense should be implemented then it's probably fair to start using a bit more direct language.

Your right i probably jumped the gun a bit. My bad.

Once I researched colonization, I got a popup that told me I needed to design a colony ship. I had already seen a passenger ship designed in a let's play, so I had the basics down for designing one. Once that happened, I had no issues building one.

Triple A-Toys is good people. I have been frustrated before and sometimes you just want people to know you're frustrated.