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RE: Matrix games on Windows tablets & phones

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:21 am
by invernomuto
ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

What models of Windows tablets do you use and what are the most demanding games you have got to work with them? Do you ever play without mouse, or do you play anything at all if mouse doesn't happen to be available? Can anyone tell me about gameplay differences between Windows tablet and iPad? How much different is Panzer Corps (for example) to play with iPad compared to Windows tablet?

[edit]
And check your spelling! There are no such things as Razor Edge and HP Omin

In general, iPad games are optimized for a touch user interface (UI) because they are specifically designed to run on an iPad. You cannot run a Windows game on an iPad (or Android tablet).
One of the biggest advantage of Windows tablets running Windows 8 (not RT) is that you can run on them any game that works on your windows desktop.
However, if you try to run a game that has an UI optimized for a mouse and a keyboard (so it works very well on a desktop or a notebook), with the touchscreen you can have mixed result, ad MrsWargamer said.
I'm not a programmer but IMVHO a touchscreen interface DOES not work on a desktop and a "mouse and keyboard" interface DOES not work on a tablet.
E.g. try playing to Tiller's Panzer Campaign series on an Android Tablet, it's a frustrating experience because of the UI not optimized for a touchscreen...
Yes, you can use a mouse and a (mini) keyboard also on a tablet, but then I'd prefer to buy a small notebook instead.
My two cents.
Bye.

RE: Matrix games on Windows tablets & phones

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:52 am
by d714
Guys, once again, anything that works on a windows 8 desktop works on a windows 8 tablet of equivalent specs, there is no difference: mouse and keyboard, virtual drives(I have a virtual XP running on my tablet), etc. All except perhaps the extreme cheapest basic tablets should have a USB port, or a micro USB port (usually however it's only one port), and also a SD memory slot. You can get SD memory cards with 64gb. I actually run games off my SD memory card since the model of tablet I have has limited internal memory. You can also use online cloud storage to supplement memory of course. Use wireless Bluetooth to free up your USB ports.

Someone asked how I get my games installed? Most of the games nowadays are downloadable of course so I simply re-downloaded from the gaming site - be it steam or Matrix. Some I added by transferring the game to a memory stick from another computer and inserting that into the USB port and uploading the game to my tablet. The only problem you may have is the old games that only work when a CD is inserted. I had that problem with an old TOAW COW game. In theory I could have attached a CD drive into the USB port, which is awkward of course. I ended up using a "no-CD" crack. Yup I had to hack my own legally purchased game. You get this problem however with today's mid-range laptops however, many of which are sold without CD drives.

I probably made some spelling errors above. Apologies to the one spelling Nazi here.

RE: Matrix games on Windows tablets & phones

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:49 am
by MrsWargamer
To directly answer the question, seeing as some insist on getting a direct reply :)

Yes, you can run dosbox on a tablet with Windows on it.

Windows is Windows is Windows.

While you CAN get under powered tablets if you get earlier models, the newer ones are often MORE powerful than mundane desktops even.

The only reason I bought the HP Streamer was 99 bucks was a hard sell :) Tablets are rarely worth buying under the 300 dollar mark.

RE: Matrix games on Windows tablets & phones

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:29 pm
by aaatoysandmore
ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

To directly answer the question, seeing as some insist on getting a direct reply :)

Yes, you can run dosbox on a tablet with Windows on it.

Windows is Windows is Windows.

While you CAN get under powered tablets if you get earlier models, the newer ones are often MORE powerful than mundane desktops even.

The only reason I bought the HP Streamer was 99 bucks was a hard sell :) Tablets are rarely worth buying under the 300 dollar mark.

How do you install all these things? How large could a hard drive be on a Tablet? What do you do install an delete? Therefore you "must" have some alterior storage device you use as I can't see them having 2TB hard drives installed in those lil cases.

Oooooooh So now we have to have a NEW one. Not so with a desktop. I can run things today I ran yesterday on an OLD desktop machine. I can invest lil to nothing and most of the wargames I play will run on an OLD desktop. Not so with a Tablet you say huh? [:D]

Describe this power you keep talking about. How many ghz's, how much ram, how much hard drive space, how powerful is the video card? How replaceable are they when they are no longer top of the line? Could it be Tablets are like consoles? You'll have to upgrade and buy a NEW one every 2 years? I can just buy parts for my computer and not have to invest everytime there is a new version like cell phones and tablets.

RE: Matrix games on Windows tablets & phones

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:46 pm
by Kuokkanen
For me major headache choosing a tablet is performance of processors I'm unfamiliar. Atom and ARM processors seem to be used in tablets. How do those (and their various models) compare with i5-i7 and Athlon processors? At the moment likely the most demanding games I'd like to play with tablet are Pandora and Age of Wonders 3. What would be minimum system requirements for those games? Or what kind of tablet do you use to play those games?

aaatoysandmore, if you want play newest Crysis, you'd better forget tablets and go for the $2k laptop. Or $1,5k desktop if portability isn't required. What comes to installing games and software, it should be the same as with desktop computers: download installation file, run through the install, and before those there could be matter of payment with credit card.

RE: Matrix games on Windows tablets & phones

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:13 pm
by d714
ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

To directly answer the question, seeing as some insist on getting a direct reply :)

Yes, you can run dosbox on a tablet with Windows on it.

Windows is Windows is Windows.

While you CAN get under powered tablets if you get earlier models, the newer ones are often MORE powerful than mundane desktops even.

The only reason I bought the HP Streamer was 99 bucks was a hard sell :) Tablets are rarely worth buying under the 300 dollar mark.

How do you install all these things? How large could a hard drive be on a Tablet? What do you do install an delete? Therefore you "must" have some alterior storage device you use as I can't see them having 2TB hard drives installed in those lil cases.

Oooooooh So now we have to have a NEW one. Not so with a desktop. I can run things today I ran yesterday on an OLD desktop machine. I can invest lil to nothing and most of the wargames I play will run on an OLD desktop. Not so with a Tablet you say huh? [:D]

Describe this power you keep talking about. How many ghz's, how much ram, how much hard drive space, how powerful is the video card? How replaceable are they when they are no longer top of the line? Could it be Tablets are like consoles? You'll have to upgrade and buy a NEW one every 2 years? I can just buy parts for my computer and not have to invest everytime there is a new version like cell phones and tablets.


In my opinion, all your concerns are valid of course - tablets GENERALLY have less memory and less CPU power then PC's. But, today they make some tablets that indeed are as powerful, you just have to pay for it and for all that portable power you pay a premium compared to the equivalent desktop. They are also not upgradeable. All those are valid considerations.
I can tell you the specs of my tablet - an HP Omni 10, which I got for the great bargain price of $250...I think Amazon has them for a bit over $300:
The CPU is an Atom 1.46 quad core processor, the RAM is 2GB. This is not powerful by today's standards but remember 5 or 10 years ago this would be a top of the line machine. With this I am able to play every Matrix game I loaded into it except "Wars in America" which I think had difficulty handling the huge map. It ran, but scrolled slow. It runs the 3d TC2M but had some difficulty with it's successor SoW. Trying a demo, it runs but slowly. I think that is because those games were designed without the ability to use multicore threading. Otherwise, it's surprised me with it's ability to play most games, even some I thought would never run.
The memory is also limited at 32GB. The Windows OS takes up over half of that. I supplement that with a 32GB SD memory card where I have many of the games stored. Not the save files, but the actual games. I also have a virtual XP drive on this card and I can run XP off it.

So, in summary, you can do pretty good and play just about every game created by matrix on a $300 tablet.

RE: Matrix games on Windows tablets & phones

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:26 pm
by MrsWargamer
Not sure what precisely you expect to need on a tablet simultaneously.

For instance, if I were to install War in the East on it, I dare say it is unlikely I give a hoot what else might be on it :)

My tablet though holds 64 gigs of data. For point of reference, my entire wargames collection sits in a folder that is just shy of 52 gigs of data as installer files. That's 38 folders of wargames where in some cases a folder is my entire Matrix Games Close Combat Series or my entire Panzer Corps series or my entire Battle Academy series. I also have both WitP and WitE along with it's expansions in their folder. I even have that bloated data pig Legends of War present with its 3.7 gigs of data. I have almost the entire Panzer Campaigns and the entire Squad Battles series.

Now if a tablet can hold dang near all of that, I think needing more must mean some of your games are just over inflated garbage.

My tablet currently has Battle Academy series, Panzer Corps series, Conflict of Heroes series, and TOAW III on it. I currently don't have anything else installed on the laptop either. Because it is easy to buy a game, but not so easy to find the time to play it sometimes :) Plus, ME I am not inclined to consider some games as light entertainment while out and about :) I can't picture getting in a few minutes of WitE to tell ya the truth. Sometimes it doesn't even matter if something can run something, if it is unlikely to ever be desired to be present.

As for useless junk paperweight desktops. Well ya, I suppose a piece of scrap waiting to happen garbage running some has been OS from 10 years ago might be all a person has to work with. I've found though, that the reason desktops have any value at all, is because you can easily swap out the old parts. If your rig actually DOES have 10 year old parts in it, you ARE definitely poor. Because even my rig which is worth so I am told about 50 bucks, still has parts that are less than 5 years old in it.

There's nothing magical though about half or more of the games catalogue here. There mainly games from the 90s with a facelift or two. Or they were never graphically demanding to begin with. That an old desktop can run them is no accomplishment :) Anything can run them for the most part. It's a very rare wargame that demands cutting edge hardware.

Tablets are only different from desktops in one category, size. That and the screen is part of the device.
But I've seen computers built into televisions too. And with touch technology becoming the norm they are essentially just massive tablets too.

Once the technology gets away from the need to constantly swap in and out parts, the desktop will have come to an end to it's utility.

I for one, don't expect a device to need to perform longer than 5 years.
If it actually continues to run after 5 years, fine.
Chances are though, that something sufficiently innovative will as always render the old no longer of interest.

I am not in the market for a new desktop mainly as they offer nothing of worth I can't get elsewhere. If I actually need a new rig, I will just buy a new laptop. The parts in the one I have though, they have already exceeded the usual needs. I don't need TB of data storage. I don't have TB of data to store. I currently have the entire Cosmos series as emulated disks, and the entire World at War series as emulated disks on my laptop just on the chance I might need to go somewhere for a few days or whatever, and it gives me something to watch. I don't even miss the data space. You should see the size of my pdf library on my laptop. I have all my music on it.

Our capacity to make storage devices has exceeded our capacity to acquire data to some extent.

Oh and your new parts every 2 years, costs no less than our entirely new devices eh :)

RE: Matrix games on Windows tablets & phones

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:09 pm
by aaatoysandmore
My tablet though holds 64 gigs of data.

[:D]talk about going back into the dark ages of computers. [:D]No thank you I'll stick to my 2TB rig that holds my "whole" wargame collection and all of the older ones as well clear back to the 80's. I just knew it had a rinky dinky storage system. You didn't want to bring that up I'm sure. Cause it makes the tablet as I said just look like a toy.

But, to each their own. As I said Tablets are just a fad. It will be replaced with something else not far down the road. Just like 8 tracks and beta max and a few other things along the road of technology. [:'(]

RE: Matrix games on Windows tablets & phones

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:16 pm
by zakblood
i'd like to comment on this debate but don't want shooting if i'm wrong as i normally am :)

i own 7 pc's of various speeds, 3 tablets, one windows and a ipad plus an older android one, plus atm 3 laptops and with only 3 of us in the house, 2 at mostly any time it's all a bit over kill...

i don't play games on my windows phone Nokia Lumia 930, gf lad has a iphone 5, he does, gf also has same phone as me, she does... his phone holds 32gb and mine holds a 64gb card

i don't play games on any tablet, well the odd one once a year maybe at most :) gf and her son both do

we all play on the wii u, play station and xbox and tbh have most versions so won't name them all

i play games on a pc, like a big chair, a even bigger screen and can spend 8 to 12 hours playing / testing games 6 or 7 days a week...

some said consoles would take over from pc's, never happened, and in the end, ended up being a pc's in a smaller box...

same was said with laptops, then tablets, now phones, all have there uses, but one size doesn't fit all and for everyone...

what i'm trying to say is we are all different, and so is our hardware and how we use it as well, i love to fiddle and upgrade and have a strange reason for fast stuff, so i tend to wipe pc's a lot, tablets get flashed, laptops get upgraded and new o/s every now and then and pc's are always in bits, as i like to do it, i have more storage as i collect junk so at last count was 20 odd drives and around 20+TB of data, of various types, music, tv, films, old games, emulation stuff, operating systems and all upgrades etc, gave up on cd's and dvd's years ago as i had too many....

new devices are great, as soon one thing will do all, but atm none do everything so we still have a few, some more than most[:D][;)]

RE: Matrix games on Windows tablets & phones

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:26 pm
by VPaulus
ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

For me major headache choosing a tablet is performance of processors I'm unfamiliar. Atom and ARM processors seem to be used in tablets. How do those (and their various models) compare with i5-i7 and Athlon processors?
It's hard to compare...

Some information on these sites:
http://www.computingcompendium.com/p/ar ... marks.html
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/id- ... essor.html
https://kb.wisc.edu/page.php?id=4927

RE: Matrix games on Windows tablets & phones

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:34 pm
by Kuokkanen
Cut the flame wars already! So MrsWargamer doesn't need/want storage capacity to back up video DVDs, but I've got 4 TBs of external hard disks for that purpose and 1 TB drive for CDs, floppy disks (some were already corrupted, including original Civilization), and downloaded games (I should get Pandora installation file there too...). It seems MrsWargamer doesn't want/need PC to watch TV and DVD/BD videos, but I'm happy to do it with my 24" monitor and better speakers than what TV alone is equipped with. But I'd like to have more portability than what my laptop provides, which has dead battery by the way (warranty has expired but I could have it replaced for a fee...).

MrsWargamer, I ask you not to diss desktops and their extensive peripheral equipment like large monitors (possibly several), high quality speakers, BD drive, and TV tuner, which all together can replace even more bulkier TV equipment & peripherals (like BD player). aaatoysandmore, you better not diss portability of tablets any further! Both kinds of machines can have good and valid use.

Now MrsWargamer & DI7: have you played Pandora and/or Age of Wonders 3 with your tablets? Any problems with those games? MrsWargamer, what hardware (processor and the likes) does your tablet have?

RE: Matrix games on Windows tablets & phones

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:34 pm
by MrsWargamer
ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore
My tablet though holds 64 gigs of data.

[:D]talk about going back into the dark ages of computers. [:D]No thank you I'll stick to my 2TB rig that holds my "whole" wargame collection and all of the older ones as well clear back to the 80's. I just knew it had a rinky dinky storage system. You didn't want to bring that up I'm sure. Cause it makes the tablet as I said just look like a toy.

But, to each their own. As I said Tablets are just a fad. It will be replaced with something else not far down the road. Just like 8 tracks and beta max and a few other things along the road of technology. [:'(]

Well, if you really feel a need to compete, my laptop rules over 10 TB of data. But none of it is crap from 1980 :) Well maybe some of the songs. Well I suppose The World at War is also old.

But if you think 64 gigs is inadequate, then you are a funny chap indeed :)

I would not wait for the tech to go anywhere though. Sales figures don't say anything. Once you have a few millions of items on the market, you hardly need to continue mass producing them at maximum pace indefinitely.

RE: Matrix games on Windows tablets & phones

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:45 pm
by MrsWargamer
Actually Matt, I use my laptop to watch tv via my television to some extent. HDMI cables were a great development.

I haven't played Age of Wonders in a while though. I have it, just have not played it. Might install it on the tablet and see how it is like.

No experience with Pandora. I have also taken a pass on indulging the new Civ extension Beyond the Earth. Just not interested in Steam to be honest. I have uninstalled Steam. Not saying anything against it, I've just gotten bored of Civ lately, and without Civ Steam is more intrusion than I feel like. All the other games I have on it, nah, couldn't care less if I'm not playing them to be honest. Just because I bought it, doesn't make it valuable.

My new tablet hardware is, if I can figure it out.

7-inch HD touchscreen
Intel Atom Z3735G (which is a quad core)
1GB memory/32GB expandable to 64 (which I did)
Up to 8 hours battery life

Copy pasted that from a web page. It looks like the correct specs. I bought the thing on the advice of my boyfriend. I don't know from squat about buying electronics for the most part :) He on the other hand is a complete genius with the stuff.

RE: Matrix games on Windows tablets & phones

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:49 pm
by zakblood

speed check for you

faster than a dual core Intel-Celeron-N2830

RE: Matrix games on Windows tablets & phones

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:50 pm
by Kuokkanen
ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

My new tablet hardware is, if I can figure it out.

7-inch HD touchscreen
Intel Atom Z3735G (which is a quad core)
1GB memory/32GB expandable to 64 (which I did)
Up to 8 hours battery life
How much did it cost?

RE: Matrix games on Windows tablets & phones

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:52 pm
by zakblood
£100 online in the uk for that spec, but more for the upgrades

8 inch tablet from Acer has a 64GB flash memory, runs Intel Atom Z3740 Quad-core (4 core) 1.33GHz, 8 inch screen, has Windows 8.1 and Microsoft Office Home and a 2MP camera.

£250, so top end and a great spec

£160 for a mid range Blackberry Playbook 64GB Tablet with 7" screen

high end is the Microsoft Surface 2 64GB Tablet with 10.6 inch screen at £400

so total cost is less than i spent on my latest vga card, with money left over to buy a game here tbh, one of the WITW ones even :)

RE: Matrix games on Windows tablets & phones

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:59 pm
by MrsWargamer
Got mine for 99 bucks CAD at Staples on idiot Friday. No I didn't need to endure cold in a line, nor crazy people. This is Canada :)
I walked to the mall, asked the sales person for one, and he brought it to me. No problems.

RE: Matrix games on Windows tablets & phones

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:01 pm
by zakblood
job done then, sorted, and thanks for the reply for combat mission btw, ty

RE: Matrix games on Windows tablets & phones

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:01 pm
by histgamer
ORIGINAL: DI7
There is really no limiting factor in terms of "tablet" vs desktop or laptop that makes them unplayable, the limiting factor is the CPU and integrated videocards and limited memory - but they are making tablets nowadays that are as powerful as many desktops.

Not really true, ARM architecture is very different from X86, do not look at the GHZ or RAM and compare them directly because you can't when the system architecture is entirely different.

The only place I've really seen "desktops" be comparable with tablets in terms of capabilities might be on some of the lower end integrated all in ones because they are designed more as a tablet but that isn't really the point of this thread so I'll leave it there.

That in of itself doesn't mean some tablets aren't powerful enough to play a lot of the type of wargames we like because many of them are.

RE: Matrix games on Windows tablets & phones

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:57 pm
by d714
ORIGINAL: flanyboy
Not really true, ARM architecture is very different from X86, do not look at the GHZ or RAM and compare them directly because you can't when the system architecture is entirely different.

ARM? I think those are used for Android/WindowsRT tablets. We are talking intel core tables. Atom, but also some now with I5 and I7 CPUs. Perhaps I don't understand your reference.