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RE: Request: GBU drop altitude
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:31 am
by jarraya
Why not just make the altitude lower for all GBUs and then it's not that big a deal.
RE: Request: GBU drop altitude
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:08 pm
by mikmykWS
ORIGINAL: hellfish6
ORIGINAL: mikmyk
Ah so we've got to program in 10 meters leeyway to allow for that. Well what if Jimbo wants 20m? What do you think is fair leeway?
Why aren't you using a GPS weapons or anything else more suitable to the weather conditions at the time?
Mike
Because we're playing other people's scenarios and/or the CWDB. Check out the "Fighter Weapons School - Ground Attack Tactics GAT 5 & 6" scenario. I don't remember who made it, but you've got two F-4s with GBU-10s and 'light low clouds' at 5-7k feet. You can't drop, so you've just lost half your ground attack capability.
Admittedly, it's a rare occurrence, but it has happened. And you can be sure that some guy out there who bought the game off Steam is gonna run into this problem, not have the patience to go into the editor and fix it, and be a lot more vocal about this one specific issue than I am.
We're not responsible for a scenario writer's errors[:)]
I think you're right though its and edge case and as Jorge put it..not that big of a deal. We'll take a look.
Mike
RE: Request: GBU drop altitude
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:26 pm
by Tomcat84
ORIGINAL: hellfish6
you've got two F-4s with GBU-10s and 'light low clouds' at 5-7k feet. You can't drop, so you've just lost half your ground attack capability.
Don't forget that you can buddy lase, although I agree that in this case this probably wasnt Primarch's intention for the scenario.
RE: Request: GBU drop altitude
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:29 pm
by hellfish6
ORIGINAL: Tomcat84
ORIGINAL: hellfish6
you've got two F-4s with GBU-10s and 'light low clouds' at 5-7k feet. You can't drop, so you've just lost half your ground attack capability.
Don't forget that you can buddy lase, although I agree that in this case this probably wasnt Primarch's intention for the scenario.
Can you buddy laze if the aircraft dropping the weapon is in the clouds?
RE: Request: GBU drop altitude
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 1:25 am
by RoryAndersonCDT
ORIGINAL: jarraya
Baloogan is it possible to get an export from your DB for all the GBUs? I've manually gone through most of them and the majority have a 3048m drop altitude.
Just want to point out its not my DB at all; its warfare sims' database; I just host a viewer on the wiki.
RE: Request: GBU drop altitude
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:23 am
by dusky
ORIGINAL: jarraya
Baloogan is it possible to get an export from your DB for all the GBUs? I've manually gone through most of them and the majority have a 3048m drop altitude.
You can get a SQLite viewer (for example
http://sqlitebrowser.org/), open the DB and run this query:
Code: Select all
select DataWeapon.ID, DataWeapon.Name, LaunchAltitudeMin
from DataWeapon, DataWeaponPropulsion, DataPropulsion
where DataWeapon.ID = DataWeaponPropulsion.ID and DataWeaponPropulsion.ComponentID = DataPropulsion.ID
and DataWeapon.Type = 2001 and DataPropulsion.Type = 5003
order by LaunchAltitudeMin
This should select all GBUs -- weapon type 2001 is "Guided Weapon" and propulsion type 5003 is "Weapon Coast".
The query returns 125 weapons. Only these 14 have minimum launch altitude set to less than 3048:
Code: Select all
ID Name LaunchAltitudeMin
1190 BAT 457.2
86 GBU-24B/B Paveway III LGB [BLU-109A/B] 609.6
88 GBU-24D/B Paveway III LGB [BLU-116/B] 609.6
91 GBU-24E/B Paveway III GPS/LGB [BLU-109A/B] 609.6
466 GBU-24/B Paveway III LGB [BPG-2000 PGM, CPE-800 Penetrator] 609.6
738 GBU-24/B Paveway III LGB [Mk84] 609.6
823 GBU-22/B Paveway III LGB [Mk82] 609.6
871 GBU-24A/B Paveway III LGB [BLU-109/B] 609.6
973 GBU-24C/B Paveway III LGB [BLU-116/B] 609.6
1071 BK 90 Mjolner Mk2 [24 x MJ2 Anti-Tank] 609.6
1072 BK 90 Mjolner Mk1 [72 x MJ1 Anti-Personnel] 609.6
1188 GBU-44/B Viper Strike 609.6
1302 GBU-24G/B Paveway III GPS/LGB [BLU-116A/B] 609.6
1709 DWS.39 AFDS [24 x STABO] 609.6
RE: Request: GBU drop altitude
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:50 am
by jarraya
ORIGINAL: Baloogan
ORIGINAL: jarraya
Baloogan is it possible to get an export from your DB for all the GBUs? I've manually gone through most of them and the majority have a 3048m drop altitude.
Just want to point out its not my DB at all; its warfare sims' database; I just host a viewer on the wiki.
Sorry, meant yours as coming from your very useful website!
RE: Request: GBU drop altitude
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:01 am
by mikmykWS
Thanks guys. Looking up in the string I said we'd look at it so I'm not really sure what is going on [:)]. I'll address the two attempts to annoy us in following posts as its is such a waste of time and goodwill it needs to be addressed.
We are currently working on a number of issues but will give this problem the proper attention when it makes sense to. As Hellfish mentioned the issue is an edge case and as Jorge mentioned its not the end of the world. So I had every intention of treating exactly that way.
Thanks!
RE: Request: GBU drop altitude
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:23 am
by mikmykWS
ORIGINAL: dusky
ORIGINAL: jarraya
Baloogan is it possible to get an export from your DB for all the GBUs? I've manually gone through most of them and the majority have a 3048m drop altitude.
You can get a SQLite viewer (for example
http://sqlitebrowser.org/), open the DB and run this query:
Code: Select all
select DataWeapon.ID, DataWeapon.Name, LaunchAltitudeMin
from DataWeapon, DataWeaponPropulsion, DataPropulsion
where DataWeapon.ID = DataWeaponPropulsion.ID and DataWeaponPropulsion.ComponentID = DataPropulsion.ID
and DataWeapon.Type = 2001 and DataPropulsion.Type = 5003
order by LaunchAltitudeMin
This should select all GBUs -- weapon type 2001 is "Guided Weapon" and propulsion type 5003 is "Weapon Coast".
The query returns 125 weapons. Only these 14 have minimum launch altitude set to less than 3048:
Code: Select all
ID Name LaunchAltitudeMin
1190 BAT 457.2
86 GBU-24B/B Paveway III LGB [BLU-109A/B] 609.6
88 GBU-24D/B Paveway III LGB [BLU-116/B] 609.6
91 GBU-24E/B Paveway III GPS/LGB [BLU-109A/B] 609.6
466 GBU-24/B Paveway III LGB [BPG-2000 PGM, CPE-800 Penetrator] 609.6
738 GBU-24/B Paveway III LGB [Mk84] 609.6
823 GBU-22/B Paveway III LGB [Mk82] 609.6
871 GBU-24A/B Paveway III LGB [BLU-109/B] 609.6
973 GBU-24C/B Paveway III LGB [BLU-116/B] 609.6
1071 BK 90 Mjolner Mk2 [24 x MJ2 Anti-Tank] 609.6
1072 BK 90 Mjolner Mk1 [72 x MJ1 Anti-Personnel] 609.6
1188 GBU-44/B Viper Strike 609.6
1302 GBU-24G/B Paveway III GPS/LGB [BLU-116A/B] 609.6
1709 DWS.39 AFDS [24 x STABO] 609.6
You could of also found it in the database viewer or Baloogan's website. Both have been available for a long time.
I believe we fixed your reported bugs in the released build so what exactly are you so angry about enough to spend time doing this?
Mike
RE: Request: GBU drop altitude
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:51 am
by mikmykWS
ORIGINAL: jarraya
ORIGINAL: Baloogan
ORIGINAL: jarraya
Baloogan is it possible to get an export from your DB for all the GBUs? I've manually gone through most of them and the majority have a 3048m drop altitude.
Just want to point out its not my DB at all; its warfare sims' database; I just host a viewer on the wiki.
Sorry, meant yours as coming from your very useful website!
Why didn't you just ask us although this would be part of our process of fixing it. Did you think asking Baloogan would annoy us?
Mike
RE: Request: GBU drop altitude
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:52 am
by Tomcat84
ORIGINAL: hellfish6
Can you buddy laze if the aircraft dropping the weapon is in the clouds?
Sure! If you have a suitable designator.
Here we have moderate clouds 7-16k ft, light high clouds 27-30k.
F-16C is in the high light cloud layer, MQ-1 is below the lowest layer.
MQ-1 lases in the GBU-12 no problem. Remove the MQ-1 and the plane will say no director available and unable to drop.
RE: Request: GBU drop altitude
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:53 am
by jarraya
Mike,
I'm not sure if your message was directed at me. I hope not.
I was trying to find a way to look at the entire list of GBUs (not individually) so I could identify which ones have a high drop altitude. Then I planned on letting the DB guys know which ones need changing and therefore save them time from having to go and look at every single GBU - I thought I'd help.
Anyway, I don't know why things get so out of hand.
RE: Request: GBU drop altitude
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:04 am
by mikmykWS
ORIGINAL: jarraya
Mike,
I'm not sure if your message was directed at me. I hope not.
I was trying to find a way to look at the entire list of GBUs (not individually) so I could identify which ones have a high drop altitude. Then I planned on letting the DB guys know which ones need changing and therefore save them time from having to go and look at every single GBU - I thought I'd help.
Anyway, I don't know why things get so out of hand.
Yes it is directed at you.
I am one of the DB guys[:)]
Your up to no good again and it needs to stop. You're wasting time out of a small pool we have to give with these stupid ploys and antics to annoy the crap out of us. You do know people can recognize when you're being passive aggressive right?
If you don't like it we're more than willing to support you through email.
Thanks
Mike
RE: Request: GBU drop altitude
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:32 am
by dusky
ORIGINAL: mikmyk
You could of also found it in the database viewer or Baloogan's website. Both have been available for a long time.
I believe we fixed your reported bugs in the released build so what exactly are you so angry about enough to spend time doing this?
Mike
[&:] I'm not angry at all. I do not even think there is any problem with GBUs. I know the information is available in the DB viewer and on Baloogan's website. However, there is no easy way to quickly select all GBUs with a specific property (launch altitude less than 3048) -- you need to check the weapons manually.
I saw that jarraya actually tried to do this work:
ORIGINAL: jarraya
Baloogan is it possible to get an export from your DB for all the GBUs? I've manually gone through most of them and the majority have a 3048m drop altitude.
so, I just provided the data he asked for. That's it, no bad feelings, I was just answering jarraya's questions and tried to point him to a tool he can use to filter the data himself. (and now I think I even misunderstood the request, he wanted to list the GBUs with launch altitude equal or higher than 3048, not lower.)
RE: Request: GBU drop altitude
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:41 am
by jarraya
Thanks Dusky, that's exactly what happened.
I've agreed with Mike to stay clear of the forum which is probably best. I enjoy the game and don't want to cause any problems.
RE: Request: GBU drop altitude
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:59 am
by Primarchx
I know what Hellfish means about the cloud deck & min drop issue, as I've run into it, too, though buddy lasing works. As I recall these issues weren't implemented when I wrote the Fighter Weapons School - Ground Attack Tactics GAT 5 & 6 scenario.
I would use lower-level releases to use terrain masking more effectively or (as above) drop below obscuring clouds to attack. As it stands now I can fly aircraft at NOE near the target but then have to make a big pop up to 10k' to drop my LGB (less so with Paveway III), potentially exposing aircraft to air defenses that couldn't see it before.
Mike, GPS weapons are not always the answer, either, as many of them can't engage mobile targets.
For now I just adapt, no big deal. The dev team now knows more about the issue and have proven themselves responsive and resourceful to finding solutions to these kinds of things.
RE: Request: GBU drop altitude
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:17 am
by mikmykWS
I didn't ask you to take a break. I just asked you to cut out the annoying stuff. You suggested the break and I thought it might be a good idea. Your final response though was that you were going to post bug reports and files which doesn't sound like take a break at all.
This is not the tale you're telling Dusan[:)] Instead you kind of make it sound like I showed you the door which is the not the case[:-]
Thanks!
Mike