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RE: Tutorial
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:05 pm
by InuharikoMu
I say it more bluntly: 50 € is the Price for a Triple-A Game. Meaning i expect a Manual & a written Tutorial. Furthermore everything jglazier has told us in this Thread, get's from me a +1. I'm not happy about the degrading Quality of Matrix / Slitherine Documentation and 1st Day Quality of the latest Products. Best Regards from rainy Zermany
RE: Tutorial
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:50 pm
by bazjak
I couldn't agree more
My physical copy will be here soon and im none the wiser
Please a tutorial like FC or even better like BF would be magic
RE: Tutorial
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:36 pm
by Gil R.
So let me share my thoughts on this.
First, an interactive, learn-as-you-play tutorial is obviously a good thing to have, but the nature of the BAB engine makes that a non-option. HOWEVER, we do have the "Starter Scenario," which as you know is our smallest scenario, with more than a dozen pointers available right there on the map if one clicks on a yellow question mark. Several days ago I posted a thread saying I want to improve that tutorial, now that people have gotten to know the game, and have received only a single suggestion. (I also know, from tgb's experience, that I should say how one opens and closes both the OOB list and the echelon window.) If no one has made suggestions for improvements I can only infer that it has been sufficient for most players. Now, of course, there are different types of players, so a one-size-fits-all approach might not be the right way to go. And it's been suggested that we provide a PDF that goes step by step. That can be done, of course, though the time involved comes at the direct expense of new scenarios and scenario improvements, so I'm a bit hesitant to embark on such a project. But I might have another solution: what if I take the existing starter scenario and organize the pointers better? I'm thinking that I could write on the map "Step 1: Examining your units" and then provide there in a row the pertinent pointers, then "Step 2: Moving your units" followed by the relevant info, etc. Since all text for this tutorial is in a single .txt file it would be easy to provide that as a formatted PDF file for those who want to print it and have it ready to consult. That seems like a hybrid approach between an interactive tutorial and a static PDF document. Thoughts?
RE: Tutorial
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:35 pm
by AlessandroD
I guess it depends which kind of players you want to support, for a total novice a pdf step by step surely is most helpful (maybe not a full game but only 3-5 turns with some action).
For a player that has already played similar games (like me) I found it enough, but of course that's me.
What I'd like to see is a terrain chart with movement cost for each formation, terrain modifiers involved in the combat system (if they can change patchc after patch a guideline can be enough).
RE: Tutorial
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:15 pm
by tgb
ORIGINAL: Gil R.
So let me share my thoughts on this.
First, an interactive, learn-as-you-play tutorial is obviously a good thing to have, but the nature of the BAB engine makes that a non-option. HOWEVER, we do have the "Starter Scenario," which as you know is our smallest scenario, with more than a dozen pointers available right there on the map if one clicks on a yellow question mark. Several days ago I posted a thread saying I want to improve that tutorial, now that people have gotten to know the game, and have received only a single suggestion. (I also know, from tgb's experience, that I should say how one opens and closes both the OOB list and the echelon window.) If no one has made suggestions for improvements I can only infer that it has been sufficient for most players. Now, of course, there are different types of players, so a one-size-fits-all approach might not be the right way to go. And it's been suggested that we provide a PDF that goes step by step. That can be done, of course, though the time involved comes at the direct expense of new scenarios and scenario improvements, so I'm a bit hesitant to embark on such a project. But I might have another solution: what if I take the existing starter scenario and organize the pointers better? I'm thinking that I could write on the map "Step 1: Examining your units" and then provide there in a row the pertinent pointers, then "Step 2: Moving your units" followed by the relevant info, etc. Since all text for this tutorial is in a single .txt file it would be easy to provide that as a formatted PDF file for those who want to print it and have it ready to consult. That seems like a hybrid approach between an interactive tutorial and a static PDF document. Thoughts?
I think it's a good compromise. I haven't felt the need for further help since I finally read the manual, but you know how impatient gamers can be.
I think the suggestion of a .pdf tutorial doesn't mean it has to be written by someone at WCS - you guys have other fish to fry. Perhaps one of the beta testers with a lot more experience. Iirc, the person who wrote the excellent .pdf tutorial for War in the East was just a player who put a lot of time in.
RE: Tutorial
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:34 pm
by FroBodine
I also think this may be a good compromise. The game is not all that difficult, but I am still a big fan of comprehensive step-by-step tutorials, Word document/pdf style or interactive.
But, this could be a very good solution, and I would also love for you to have time to add more game content, improvements like adding flags to the firefight details, and improving the text while zooming, and more zoom options during combat, etc.
Onwards!
RE: Tutorial
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:20 am
by InuharikoMu
Why not a Bootcamp Map, with a Drill Sergant who give you the Ropes, with the Basics? That would be a nice Touch.
RE: Tutorial
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:40 am
by AlessandroD
ORIGINAL: Richtschnur
Why not a Bootcamp Map, with a Drill Sergant who give you the Ropes, with the Basics? That would be a nice Touch.
Nice idea!
RE: Tutorial
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:02 am
by Yogi the Great
I don't mind tutorials and I understand why those who would like one feel it is important, but I don't personally think it is needed for this game. Plus play the tutorial once or twice and it's usefulness is pretty much done has been my experience with tutorials in other games.
That said I will leave it to the developers and staff how they can best use their time, effort and expense to best tweak, update, fix or improve the game engine and help achieve what best leads to continued and impressive updates and additions to the series. For me that is how I would rather see them devote their efforts than toward a tutorial. Again I have no objection to them making one, I just don't feel it will do much to improve the game. As you play any game tutorials can perhaps give you a "quick start" so to speak but they don't really do much to actually improve a game or your eventual understanding of or ability to play it well. Who knows they may even decide to do a tutorial some day in a future addition to the series.
As has been said by others on this forum, this is a special game with innovative and important advances to the civil war battle game genre.
RE: Tutorial
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:22 pm
by Killjoy12
Why not a video playthrough of the tutorial?
RE: Tutorial
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:15 pm
by Gil R.
Killjoy12,
That's already on YouTube. If you check out the pinned thread that has links to YouTube and other reviews you'll find that a fellow who goes by "thehistoricalgamer" has played the tutorial scenario, giving excellent commentary on both the game and the Civil War history it represents. I would not be able to improve on what he's done.
RE: Tutorial
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:40 pm
by Killjoy12
Ok - thanks!