Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

ORIGINAL: blueatoll

I also feel this is the most frustrating aspect of the game, especially to new players. I have sent many a 55 EXP pilot to the front to get blown out of the sky trying to figure things out.

I have some pure training squadrons flying in various parts of the theater but my most effective training has been taking squadrons into areas where the Japanese units are basically isolated and out-of-supply (like Rabaul and parts of Micronesia) and just flying bombing missions with CAP and Sweeps to build up ground attack. I set the squadrons to not upgrade and they basically resupply whenever a frontline unit upgrades to a better model (like P-38 upgrades or Bolo upgrades). It seems like skills go up faster on actual missions. Tougher on airframes but who cares how many Bolos or P39s you lose in 1943.

I try my damnedest not to send any fighter pilots under 70 exp air to the front. Occasionally I will break down and send someone in the high sixties, but 55? Keep training them and save the planes. If you don't have enough pilots that's an indication you've got too many squadrons at the front. Pull one out and put those 50+ or 60+ guys in it and get them training.

When he says 55 EXP I think 55exp 70 air skill. But there are a lot of pilots with less air skill and higher exp in the beginning pools. (Flying hours no combat?)

When I get em out of training they're all 50exp, 68-72 air skill, 65-70 strafing skill, 65-70 defensive skill. The last two are trained together at 100ft sweep, and it's really important in my experience to have that defensive skill. Especially for a CAP or escort pilot. I've had very skilled and experienced pilots and up double aces with 55 def skill, but they're in the best airframes and they only sweep.

ORIGINAL: Kull
The number of pilots I know by name and unit, is actually kinda scary......

After a while, it's almost as though you know many of the pilots personally. When you lose one, you really feel it...

ORIGINAL: Treetop64

ORIGINAL: Kull
The number of pilots I know by name and unit, is actually kinda scary......

After a while, it's almost as though you know many of the pilots personally. When you lose one, you really feel it...

Don't get attached to the Japanese aviators..... My top pilot is aboard Hiryu in a A6M5, 12 kills

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

Don't get attached to the Japanese aviators..... My top pilot is aboard Hiryu in a A6M5, 12 kills

I have a "rule" that any Japanese pilot with Defense below 70 who is able to get 81+ Experience AND 5 kills can retire to TRACOM. As the War progresses and the training units start to churn more pilots into the system, I'll extend that to some of the old vets with even higher "D" numbers. It reduces the "Damn!! So-and-so died!" factor, when they have a say of sorts in their own ability to retire.

As an Allied player, I created a mod that added family members, friends, and me into the starting and scheduled pilot pool. You want real tension watching a dogfight unfold? See your brother's name pop up with a Zero on his tail. Ohmygod!

To be honest since all pilots end up pretty much exactly the same you could remove it and just make all pilot arrive with 50/70. That would reduce the clicks in a full PBEM by a couple of million AND save a hundred hours or so.

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

To be honest since all pilots end up pretty much exactly the same you could remove it and just make all pilot arrive with 50/70. That would reduce the clicks in a full PBEM by a couple of million AND save a hundred hours or so.

I think that this would also make sense from an historical point of view, although US pilots would probably arrive at their units with 50/60 exp/main skill. I believe that most US pilots transferred directly to frontline units from training units that are not depicted in the game, rather than from rear-area squadrons which could easily deployed to the front. They were pretty green, trying to simply survive their first few missions. This would also have the effect of slowing down the tempo of air operations.

A lot of the permanently restricted units in CONUS are the operational training units used to train pilots after leaving basic flight training.

Bill

ORIGINAL: wdolson

A lot of the permanently restricted units in CONUS are the operational training units used to train pilots after leaving basic flight training.

Bill

Yep. IIRC all the 4th AF ever did during the war was advanced training for pilots and evaluate some new equipment, as well as provide home defense.

In the game the 4th AF offers a huge amount of pilot training, so much so that I've always been able to train every pilot in every unit of the 4th AF to over 70 in their primary and a secondary skill before graduating the class into the pools. If I'm playing the AI I usually don't rotate trained pilots into the pools (all pilots anywhere on the map at 81 or more are retired to TRACOM, though), so in 1943 and later many of those units will have rosters with all pilots having three or even four skill sets over 70. Elite fighter and bomber units that have never seen the enemy, lol. Well, all except for the new guys that replaced someone who augered in while turning final. That has a way of messing up my program...

Sorry, can't get on board with your original post. This one was debated to death years ago. Yeah, it could be better but there are other things that I would consider more important to take care of. However, with the work put into the game over the years, I am pretty darn happy with things as they stand now. I do tend to get attached to my top pilots.

Well I guess I stuck my neck out a little bit and deserved to take some flak. Thanks guys for your replies and advice. It's a relief to see that the game can be played well without resorting to the uber-micromanagement I have gotten into. Pilot training was the most difficult concept to grasp when I was learning the basics, and when I was searching these forums I got the impression that checking every pilot every fifteen days was the only effective way to go. This thread sorts that question out and hopefully it can be of use to other players new to WITP:AE.

I'll stick with my training program anyway, because I like the results and it will feel a little bit less like a chore now that it is more of a voluntary effort. I just activated my first Beaufighter squadron for frontline duty, with Air, Def and Lo nav all at 70+, for all pilots, and it's gonna be really interesting to try it out.

A couple of questions:

Is it necessary for a naval bomber squadron to have both naval bombing and nav search to be effective?

Is it necessary for an ASW squadron to have all three of nav search, nav bombing and ASW to be useful for the ASW mission?

Not certain on your second question as I am not sure if attacks in ASW mode use ASW skill (my assumption) or a high or low nav bombing skill.

Answer to first question is depends. If you are talking about carrier nav bombers, then most definitely YES as they have to do their own air search.

For LBA its not so clear. From my days of playing Uncommon Valor I noticed that squads set to full nav bomb with no percentage setting for search rarely sorties against TFs spotted by other squads operating out of their base...ie... relying on the Catalinas to do the searching.

In response to this I developed a habit of always setting at least 10% nav search for any squad flying nav bombing, even if I have dedicated search aircraft at the base performing that task. They seemed to sortie more often if some one from their own squad spotted the enemy.

Not sure if after years of development the game engine no longer rewards this habit but I still do it.

ORIGINAL: Vitelski

A couple of questions:

Is it necessary for a naval bomber squadron to have both naval bombing and nav search to be effective?

Is it necessary for an ASW squadron to have all three of nav search, nav bombing and ASW to be useful for the ASW mission?

I have a pool of pilots that have different sets of skills. Some have just naval search. Some have naval search and ASW. Some have low naval and naval search. Some all three. I can then decide if I want these skills at any point, but I think from all of the advice I've seen from devs, nav bombing is not needed in ASW. Only ASW skill. Search with naval bombing (or low naval, depending on where you fly them) can increase the chance of hit during the search phase.

For low naval with Beaufighters and things like that I have a group of Aussie pilots trained in low naval and strafing, and a group in low ground and strafing. I just change them out when I need to. I'll of course also have a selection with exp, good air skill, defensive and strafing for escort, CAP and sweep roles.

It's pretty easy to switch out a whole group of pilots based on mission and I don't worry anymore about training all of these skills in one pilot except for CV based TB pilots. They get the works and they're still training on board the CVs once they're installed and already have 60-70 exp. [:)]

A couple of questions:

Is it necessary for a naval bomber squadron to have both naval bombing and nav search to be effective?

Is it necessary for an ASW squadron to have all three of nav search, nav bombing and ASW to be useful for the ASW mission?

I don't believe so on either account, but keep in mind something has to be searching in order to bring detection levels up. Some players set their units to do two things. Like 40% nav search, 40% ASW and the like. In that case you'd want those skills brought up by training. I ususlly have say Jakes searching and Nells doing ASW, only need to train one skill each for such units. Seems to work OK. I play against the AI so I look occasionally to see if my tactics work. I see some subs being hit by 250kg bombs and that's what Nells drop so its working , at least somewhat. If I'm wrong I'm sure someone will jump in and set me striaght. Also I'm sure there are other methods and tactics that are possible. Hope this helps some.[8D]

hi Vitelski,
the game's big enough, we can all play our different 'styles', & defend/denigrate them (& the game) here on the forum!

ORIGINAL: Vitelski
Is it necessary for a naval bomber squadron to have both naval bombing and nav search to be effective?

Depends on the tactical situation. If a group is depending on other units to find targets, it works best if they are at the same base - if at different bases, the relative speeds, distances & weather come into play. Some situations, like DB groups on CVs, are often doing their own Search (20-30%) & will need both NavB & NavS skill.

Is it necessary for an ASW squadron to have all three of nav search, nav bombing and ASW to be useful for the ASW mission?

I believe ASW is its own, self-contained skill-set & pilots don't need NavB/NavS to be effective in the ASW role.

Is it necessary for a naval bomber squadron to have both naval bombing and nav search to be effective?

Not absolutely required but training in both skills can be very helpful.

ORIGINAL: Vitelski

A couple of questions:

Is it necessary for a naval bomber squadron to have both naval bombing and nav search to be effective?

Is it necessary for an ASW squadron to have all three of nav search, nav bombing and ASW to be useful for the ASW mission?

As noted above, depends. Folks tend to get lost in all the options game play allows, there is seldom "one" right or best way.

For how I approach CV air sqdns & missions, answer to #1 is yes (for TBs), no for #2.

Playing either IJN or Allied for CV air units I train TB's in Torpedo attack, Search, Naval attack (in that order of priority). DBs in Naval Attack, Search. Float support planes in Search, ASW

For IJN my search aircraft of choice are the TBs, longer range, with 30-50% on search (Nav (Torp) Attk mission). Put the DBs on secondary arcs or more likely leave on "Nav Attk" only. So I tend to train less search for DBs.

I tend not to focus on ASW for CV based AC. Search will expose them (subs), raising detection, avoiding attack. You don't sink much (especially early on) with airborne ASW anyway. While not a complete waste of time, in my book its a luxury item for experienced sqdns chilling while the CV is in refit.

While I may be luck'ier than your average moose, this seems to have worked for me, I also tend not to linger CV TFs in shipping lanes or too close to major ports if I can help it. No science, but I think more successful in PBEM vs AI... darn AI seems to get inside my head on occasion (or reads my turn [&:] )

You may find a completely different approach supports you play style better... The one sure thing is...if you can't find'em, you can't sink'em.

Lol, so he changed the title of his thread. No less dramatic, tho.

We still like pilot training, na-nanaa-nanaa-naaaa!