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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confederate flag.
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:16 pm
by Crossroads
Maybe we should just pretend history did not happen?
RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confederate flag.
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:18 pm
by zakblood
ORIGINAL: chijohnaok
It will be interesting to see what response, if any, we might see from Matrix and NorbSoftDev with regards to Scourge of War: Gettysburg (and its follow on mods--Antietam, Brandy Station, etc).
as it's and many others are pc only titles, i see or would expect to see little response to apple regarding what ever they wish to do, not a apple fan myself either, over priced toys for those with far too much money and little sense, but regarding apps etc, again i can't see if effecting the site what so ever tbh so again no comment will be coming i'd guess, as as this only really concerns the US with flags and anything else related, as the rest of the world doesn't really care either what happens either way i'm sorry to say
RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confederate flag.
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:52 pm
by Chijohnaok2
NorbSoftDev, the developers of Scourge of War:Gettysburg have been impacted by Apple's decision in relation to some of their other products.
Here is a post from NorbSoftDev's Facebook page:
Scourge of War
3 hrs ·
We wrote a Civil War Tower Defense Game. It's been for sale on the App Store for a number of years. Yesterday they forcibly removed it from the store with this explanation. Guess political correctness overthrows historical accuracy every time.
I only post this here because many that visit this page are players of our Gettysburg game. That game features very prominently the flags of both armies, which of course includes the confederate flag. So I thought you might be interested in seeing what happens when censorship goes out of control.
Civil War Defense and Civil War Battle Defense are our two games that got banned, but by no means are they the only ones. Most Civil War games are no longer on iTunes.
Hello,
We are writing to notify you that your app has been removed from the App Store because it includes images of the confederate flag used in offensive and mean-spirited ways.
Specifically, your app does not comply with section 19.1 of the App Store Review Guidelines:
“Apps containing references or commentary about a religious, cultural or ethnic group that are defamatory, offensive, mean-spirited or likely to expose the targeted group to harm or violence will be rejected”
At this time, your app has been removed from the App Store. We encourage you to review your app concept and incorporate different content and features that are in compliance with the App Store Review Guidelines.
Best Regards,
App Store Review
https://www.facebook.com/sowgb
RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confederate flag.
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:59 pm
by Chijohnaok2
ORIGINAL: zakblood
ORIGINAL: chijohnaok
It will be interesting to see what response, if any, we might see from Matrix and NorbSoftDev with regards to Scourge of War: Gettysburg (and its follow on mods--Antietam, Brandy Station, etc).
as it's and many others are pc only titles, i see or would expect to see little response to apple regarding what ever they wish to do, not a apple fan myself either, over priced toys for those with far too much money and little sense, but regarding apps etc, again i can't see if effecting the site what so ever tbh so again no comment will be coming i'd guess, as as this only really concerns the US with flags and anything else related, as the rest of the world doesn't really care either what happens either way i'm sorry to say
Matrix may not have been impacted (yet) by this, but the developer of Scourge of War:Gettysburg has been impacted (See my post above).
At least 7 major American retailers (in addition to Apple) are pulling Confederate flags and merchandising bearing the flag from their shelves and websites
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStor ... g-31976447
For example, I read that products related to the Dukes of Hazard tv show (the General Lee automobile) will be pulled pending the removal of the Confederate flag from the vehicle. I wouldn't think it would be a stretch to think that software products that included a representation of the Confederate flag within a game would be far behind.
And it's also not a stretch to think that this will ripple outward from those major retailers to others as well.
RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confederate flag.
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:02 pm
by Chijohnaok2
ORIGINAL: Zap
Well all the noise around banning the flag caused a 9000% increase in sales of online confederate memorabilia(flags and such). So if Matrix decides to eliminate the flag I better buy SOW now before they do.
That may not matter.
If NorbSoftDev (the developer of SOW:G) is pressured to remove the flag from its software, then they will do a software patch and it will filter out to anyone owning the game that accepts future patches to the game.
RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confederate flag.
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:23 pm
by warspite1
ORIGINAL: chijohnaok
NorbSoftDev, the developers of Scourge of War:Gettysburg have been impacted by Apple's decision in relation to some of their other products.
Here is a post from NorbSoftDev's Facebook page:
Scourge of War
3 hrs ·
We wrote a Civil War Tower Defense Game. It's been for sale on the App Store for a number of years. Yesterday they forcibly removed it from the store with this explanation. Guess political correctness overthrows historical accuracy every time.
I only post this here because many that visit this page are players of our Gettysburg game. That game features very prominently the flags of both armies, which of course includes the confederate flag. So I thought you might be interested in seeing what happens when censorship goes out of control.
Civil War Defense and Civil War Battle Defense are our two games that got banned, but by no means are they the only ones. Most Civil War games are no longer on iTunes.
Hello,
We are writing to notify you that your app has been removed from the App Store because it includes images of the confederate flag used in offensive and mean-spirited ways.
Specifically, your app does not comply with section 19.1 of the App Store Review Guidelines:
“Apps containing references or commentary about a religious, cultural or ethnic group that are defamatory, offensive, mean-spirited or likely to expose the targeted group to harm or violence will be rejected”
At this time, your app has been removed from the App Store. We encourage you to review your app concept and incorporate different content and features that are in compliance with the App Store Review Guidelines.
Best Regards,
App Store Review
https://www.facebook.com/sowgb
warspite1
When I wrote above about people who simply do not understand what they are doing or why and are simply happy to join a bandwagon.......
I love the "Best Regards" at the end. Nice touch......
You seriously couldn't make it up [8|]
I recommend Scourge of War Waterloo be removed from sale immediately. I mean the British and French had colonial empires at the time. Oh and the Prussians? They became Germany and Germany created the Nazis and they were like really bad an' stuff.
File under "The world is potty". [&:]
RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confederate flag.
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:31 pm
by Jevhaddah_Slitherine
Apple... Rotten to the Core...
Boycotted Apple since the 1980's, but as a Computer Science Lecturer I had to use them every day as the staff office was full of them... sigh
Cheers
Jev
RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confederate flag.
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:32 pm
by vonRocko
I can hardly stand this shit anymore. Prior to 1862, every American flag was a slave flag.It is sick how we cater to 12% of the population.
I may not agree with what you say (or flag you wave), but I would give my life for your right to say it(or fly it).
What ever happened to this concept?
Of course it is for our "own good". [:@]
RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confederate flag.
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:40 pm
by TJD
The Steam forum for this game echoes all of the sentiments expressed here.
Please, Matrix/Slith/Ageod, don't panic like Apple. Let it end here.
RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confederate flag.
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:47 pm
by loki100
ORIGINAL: warspite1
Not sure I even know where to begin with this [:(]
But then I do not understand why games sold in the UK do not display the Swastika; essentially "they" are saying were I to play such a game I would immediately become a disciple of Adolf Hitler, shave my head and join the British National Party [8|]
I think the best that can be said is that some of these companies are at least trying to do what they consider the right thing.
...
What next? Yes slavery was, is and always will be totally abhorent, but where does this go? Ban the Union Jack, the French tricolour, the Spanish flag, the Belgian, the Portuguese etc etc? How many African flags could be displayed? Why is the Hammer and Sickle allowed?
agree, in this context this is a spectacularly silly decision.
There is a specific issue with the swastika etc. When I was working as a mod on the paradox forums, there were two strands to the ban. One was that publishers were really worried about the implications of the German laws in this regard and, given digital download, there was no way they could keep copies sold into Germany apart from the rest of the world (even if it was financially viable to produce a with/out version). The second was that there is small but real portion among those with a taste for WW2 era games who are *ahem* a wee bit enthusiastic about adolf et al. So the ban removed debate and grey areas and just made life easy all around.
I know this is inconsistent as a number of ex-Soviet republics have similar bans concerning Soviet emblems. Equally I still treasure the long and irate PM I got from someone who really beieved that Stalin was a really nice man and I was being grossly unfair in suggesting otherwise. Specifically you'll be pleased to know that Beria was a real cutie who stopped all abuses by the NKVD. So it tends to be an illogically conceived, but pretty sensible, rule.
Now of course, the Union Jack should be banned, and the Saltire [;)]. I mean think of all the past crimes committed under those banners.
RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confederate flag.
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:14 pm
by Fallschirmjager
Interesting, this actually affects me since I own that game.
It is still for download in my apps section. But not for sale anymore.
My small take on this. The flag should be removed from state capitols and off the flag of Mississippi.
Despite how you feel about it historically, it is a flag of treason.
However, removing it from media items I feel is a bit over the top.
Steam still have Ultimate General up for sale. Has Valve said anything about this?
Then again, Valve sells games with the Nazi Flag (in countries where this is allowed) so I would guess they don't have an issue.
RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confederate flag.
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:16 pm
by warspite1
ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager
Interesting, this actually affects me since I own that game.
It is still for download in my apps section. But not for sale anymore.
My small take on this. The flag should be removed from state capitols and off the flag of Mississippi.
Despite how you feel about it historically, it is a flag of treason.
However, removing it from media items I feel is a bit over the top.
Steam still have Ultimate General up for sale. Has Valve said anything about this?
Then again, Valve sells games with the Nazi Flag (in countries where this is allowed) so I would guess they don't have an issue.
warspite1
But to who? Depending upon your viewpoint the Stars and Stripes is a flag of treason, no?
EDIT: Spelling [8|]
RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confederate flag.
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:18 pm
by Aurelian
ORIGINAL: warspite1
ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager
Interesting, this actually affects me since I own that game.
It is still for download in my apps section. But not for sale anymore.
My small take on this. The flag should be removed from state capitols and off the flag of Mississippi.
Despite how you feel about it historically, it is a flag of treason.
However, removing it from media items I feel is a bit over the top.
Steam still have Ultimate General up for sale. Has Valve said anything about this?
Then again, Valve sells games with the Nazi Flag (in countries where this is allowed) so I would guess they don't have an issue.
warspite1
But to who? Depending upon your viewpoint the Stars and Stripes are a flag of treason, no?
Depends on who won the war I suppose.
RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confederate flag.
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:21 pm
by warspite1
ORIGINAL: Aurelian
ORIGINAL: warspite1
ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager
Interesting, this actually affects me since I own that game.
It is still for download in my apps section. But not for sale anymore.
My small take on this. The flag should be removed from state capitols and off the flag of Mississippi.
Despite how you feel about it historically, it is a flag of treason.
However, removing it from media items I feel is a bit over the top.
Steam still have Ultimate General up for sale. Has Valve said anything about this?
Then again, Valve sells games with the Nazi Flag (in countries where this is allowed) so I would guess they don't have an issue.
warspite1
But to who? Depending upon your viewpoint the Stars and Stripes are a flag of treason, no?
Depends on who won the war I suppose.
warspite1
Yes - history is written by the winners and all that.... But even so - that does not give a reason why an historically accurate FLAG cannot be used in a game???
I will be playing SOW Antietam at the weekend - that has the Confederate Flag in it? So what, shall I get my KKK outfit back from the drycleaners??
[&:]
RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confederate flag.
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:32 pm
by Fallschirmjager
ORIGINAL: warspite1
ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager
Interesting, this actually affects me since I own that game.
It is still for download in my apps section. But not for sale anymore.
My small take on this. The flag should be removed from state capitols and off the flag of Mississippi.
Despite how you feel about it historically, it is a flag of treason.
However, removing it from media items I feel is a bit over the top.
Steam still have Ultimate General up for sale. Has Valve said anything about this?
Then again, Valve sells games with the Nazi Flag (in countries where this is allowed) so I would guess they don't have an issue.
warspite1
But to who? Depending upon your viewpoint the Stars and Stripes are a flag of treason, no?
I live in the American south. I am quite happy with the outcome of the war
And I am saying that as a white middle class male as well.
And yes I agree that winners write history.
But the Confederate flag does still carry a lot of the history of slavery with it.
The stars and stripes carries a lot with it too thanks to recent events in the middle east. But in the UK I guess most don't see it as offensive. But I don't think it is that prominent either. It flies over the American embassy and I would guess that is about it.
But the flag is still a symbol of a nation that broke away for many reasons and one of those would be the right to own other human beings. And that nation lost.
I just don't get the sense of having it on state flags or over state capitols.
But really, I don't get too hung up about flags or nationhood to begin with.
It does not bother me when I see the Mexican flag on someones cars.
I don't get upset when the American flag is burnt.
I don't have an issue with flags in historical settings.
But I don't really see why the Confederate flag is still being used in some official capacities.
But I am able to separate the two
That is part of being human is being able to decide when two things are the same but not equal.
RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confederate flag.
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:42 pm
by warspite1
ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager
ORIGINAL: warspite1
ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager
Interesting, this actually affects me since I own that game.
It is still for download in my apps section. But not for sale anymore.
My small take on this. The flag should be removed from state capitols and off the flag of Mississippi.
Despite how you feel about it historically, it is a flag of treason.
However, removing it from media items I feel is a bit over the top.
Steam still have Ultimate General up for sale. Has Valve said anything about this?
Then again, Valve sells games with the Nazi Flag (in countries where this is allowed) so I would guess they don't have an issue.
warspite1
But to who? Depending upon your viewpoint the Stars and Stripes are a flag of treason, no?
I live in the American south. I am quite happy with the outcome of the war
And I am saying that as a white middle class male as well.
And yes I agree that winners write history.
But the Confederate flag does still carry a lot of the history of slavery with it.
The stars and stripes carries a lot with it too thanks to recent events in the middle east. But in the UK I guess most don't see it as offensive.
But I don't think it is that prominent either. It flies over the American embassy and I would guess that is about it.
But the flag is still a symbol of a nation that broke away for many reasons and one of those would be the right to own other human beings. And that nation lost.
I just don't get the sense of having it on state flags or over state capitols.
But really, I don't get too hung up about flags or nationhood to begin with.
It does not bother me when I see the Mexican flag on someones cars.
I don't get upset when the American flag is burnt.
I don't have an issue with flags in historical settings.
But I don't really see why the Confederate flag is still being used in some official capacities.
But I am able to separate the two
That is part of being human is being able to decide when two things are the same but not equal.
warspite1
You're kidding me right? [:)] The US Flag is everywhere (not surprising given the status of the US). You are right that it is not offensive - seriously NO ONE in the UK gives two hoots about 1776. It happened. There you go.
I'll butt out now as I am really keen to hear American views on this interesting subject.
RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confederate flag.
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:49 pm
by Aurelian
ORIGINAL: warspite1
ORIGINAL: Aurelian
ORIGINAL: warspite1
warspite1
But to who? Depending upon your viewpoint the Stars and Stripes are a flag of treason, no?
Depends on who won the war I suppose.
warspite1
Yes - history is written by the winners and all that.... But even so - that does not give a reason why an historically accurate FLAG cannot be used in a game???
I will be playing SOW Antietam at the weekend - that has the Confederate Flag in it? So what, shall I get my KKK outfit back from the drycleaners??
[&:]
There isn't any law here that makes it a crime. None in the UK either that I know of.
KKK? Kween's Kinky Kommoners??? [:)]
RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confederate flag.
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:51 pm
by warspite1
ORIGINAL: Aurelian
ORIGINAL: warspite1
ORIGINAL: Aurelian
Depends on who won the war I suppose.
warspite1
Yes - history is written by the winners and all that.... But even so - that does not give a reason why an historically accurate FLAG cannot be used in a game???
I will be playing SOW Antietam at the weekend - that has the Confederate Flag in it? So what, shall I get my KKK outfit back from the drycleaners??
[&:]
There isn't any law here that makes it a crime. None in the UK either that I know of.
KKK? Kween's Kinky Kommoners??? [:)]
warspite1
[&o]
No, no law here either.
RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confederate flag.
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:58 pm
by Aurelian
ORIGINAL: warspite1
ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager
ORIGINAL: warspite1
warspite1
But to who? Depending upon your viewpoint the Stars and Stripes are a flag of treason, no?
I live in the American south. I am quite happy with the outcome of the war
And I am saying that as a white middle class male as well.
And yes I agree that winners write history.
But the Confederate flag does still carry a lot of the history of slavery with it.
The stars and stripes carries a lot with it too thanks to recent events in the middle east. But in the UK I guess most don't see it as offensive.
But I don't think it is that prominent either. It flies over the American embassy and I would guess that is about it.
But the flag is still a symbol of a nation that broke away for many reasons and one of those would be the right to own other human beings. And that nation lost.
I just don't get the sense of having it on state flags or over state capitols.
But really, I don't get too hung up about flags or nationhood to begin with.
It does not bother me when I see the Mexican flag on someones cars.
I don't get upset when the American flag is burnt.
I don't have an issue with flags in historical settings.
But I don't really see why the Confederate flag is still being used in some official capacities.
But I am able to separate the two
That is part of being human is being able to decide when two things are the same but not equal.
warspite1
You're kidding me right? [:)] The US Flag is everywhere (not surprising given the status of the US). You are right that it is not offensive - seriously NO ONE in the UK gives two hoots about 1776. It happened. There you go.
I'll butt out now as I am really keen to hear American views on this interesting subject.
After the Charleston shooting, the state and US flag flew at half staff while that other flag continued to fly at full staff.
I can't speak for others, but that just struck me as wrong. Especially when you consider the pictures that emerged of the shooter buring an American flag along with several of him with the Confederate flag.
RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confederate flag.
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:08 pm
by TJD
Aurelian wrote: "After the Charleston shooting, the state and US flag flew at half staff while that other flag continued to fly at full staff. "
What third flag are you referring to? There is the national flag, the Stars and Stripes, and there is the State flag of South Carolina, both of which flew at half staff. No other flag has any official significance in this context.