Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Look forward to seeing your AAR vs Pelton in the future. Getting 30 CV for Soviets in 1941....is well.....Not going to say its impossible but it will really only be in select locations. My understanding if you look at old AARs the game has changed a ton since then...and from my experience of 3x .04 starts getting anything near those CVs seems about impossible at least for any lengthy stretch of the front against anywhere near competent German play.

And therein lies the rub. I haven't played anyone that good so I can't say if what is working for me will work. I do know that I see a lot of the AAR's and think I would have done things differently, particularly Turns 1-4 which to me are critical turns in determining how 1941 is going to go for both sides.

You can do what TD did and have grouping of high Cv but like in this game the Germans just go around, so it really isnt the best defense strategy at current in this version of the game.

I wouldn't do anything TD has done in this particular game for reasons already stated by myself and several others.

Even in Summer of 1942- with over 70 Corps in my force I couldnt dream of 30+CV everywhere.

I wouldn't know, your screens don't show CV. But in general, you don't need 30+ CV everywhere, you need them where the spearheads are.

I found that you are often struggling just to build a front line that isnt giving up pockets in most of 1941. As having even a double stacked line is a luxory that will most often just give more units into a pocket eventually.

1941 is a never ending struggle for SHC to avoid encirclements, I'm not saying it isn't. That's particularly true following a breakthrough. Once the Germans get clean breakthroughs and low cost encirclements it becomes a very difficult cycle to break. But to come full circle, where I don't agree is that the answer is to spend 1941 running. You run when you have to run and you fight when you have the strength to fight. And managing the CV and fort levels is what gives you the strength to fight. Like you I've been playing wargames for 30+ years (mostly boardgames back in the day and now ASL on VASL, though I'm on a break as its too addictive!) and like all wargames, this one just comes down to math at it's core level...if you can manage the math and use what you have in the most efficient manner possible, you'll get good results.

I dont show CV on purpose as Pelton reads my reports [8D]

T07 North-Center-South


This was a quiet turn, only 58 soviet division was eliminated, losing the red army 600k men.

My troop on north will prepare the next battles, taking Leningrad. Half of the 3rd panzer army troops sent Pskov, so next turn 14 motorized unit will try to clear the way. Those units will operate just 2 turns, before they will be send to center area. On T13 I wish to attack witt all motorized forces (all 4 panzer army), capturing Moscow, and encircle the defender of Center front.
Sadly TDV-s defense was relative tough, only the wester side of Luga line where weak, and my troops crossed the river, established a well protected beachhead.
However this maneuver is just a misguidance, the real blow will be on east, close near Novgorod, where my infantry divisions stand. Next turn they will be supported by 9 motorized divisions, who's task will be to flank the soviet defenders, and capture the swamp area and hold it. If will works, the 18 and 2nd german army troops will switch their positions on T09, and most of my motorized forces will be send south, dealing with the soviet army around Moscow.

South is clear, only the lack fuel stop my efforts. Only 12-15 soviet unit where detected.

I decide to send one panzer corps into low supplied area protecting the way for the next turn. Three other german PZ corps rest, and refit, waiting the next turn rush. My goals are to reach Stalino and Karkov, and send the 1st panzer army to Moscow around T12-T13.

I realy interested how will work together 4 panzer army, on difficult area.

T07 OOB

TDV's loses are heavy, and he give up the southern area, trying to hold Leningrad, and Moscow.

T08 North

T08 Center

T08 South

South is empty, only marginal soviet troops try to slow my advance. So I decide, to rail out 3 panzer divisions, and send them to Moscow, and the remained 8 motorized units move back to supplied zone, and waiting the next turn, and keep their fuel.
Infantry divisions flip the enemy hexes, so on clear terrain, plus with 45-50 MP, those units could reach Stalino. And after Stalino fall, only Rostov remains, and without panzer divisions, the transport planes can fuel motorized divisions, giving them high MP the following turns.

Leningrad in 8 AND a big pocket on top of that. Well played.

Ouch looks like another game over already. You did almost the exact same thing to him last game....you would think he would have at least 1 full division in each hex of leningrad to prevent a similar repeat.

Also the stacks of 3 each.....I just dont understand, I found that as Soviets its best for 2 units in first stack to make it at least a deliberate attack to break and then a carpet of 2-3 hexes back with 1 unit each. That was the first stacks fall back into the carpet and just make it stronger instead of routing. Yes the germans will get through but it slows them and helps reduce routed soviet units.

On 41, against concentrated (12-16 unit) german panzer divisions, with close supply lines, only retreat could work. Nothing else.
Soviet army must always avoid german infantry attack, and that means, he must give up territories.

yep which is why im curious so many people think the soviet army is so easy to play in 1941....1941 the entire Jun-Nov time period is extremely tough for the Soviets to survive in the current version of the game. I dont think its impossible but you can tell with the reduced replacement rates its a very difficult situation to manage against concentrated German forces.

Seems your doing alot better with German air re-supply this game to than your first starts. Something I need to work on with my german play...but if its nerfed to not be so useful in .05 something I dont want to get used to.

Soviet could survive, if he fall back, and avoid german infantry divisions.
During the T02-08, the red army must save his tough (50+ morale level units) divisions, and with the early reinforcements (T03-T06 gains) build defense line close to Leningrad, and Moscow. On T08, if the soviet army have more then 5 million men, you won the summer.
After T12 more reinforcements will arrive, and with them you can outnumbered the german side, and start farming guard units on september.

The main soviet front line, on important sector must be out of the reach of german infantry, and 3 stack frontline + reserve cavalry divisions on second, plus other defended positions could slow the german offense, but never stop it.

That is the devil's trap for german side, when the motorized units must leave the zone of supply line, and going to the deep. The real offense halt is, when those units have low number of MP, and can't encircle units.

Can't wait to see the Turn 10 Russian OOB size/casualties when that massive Lenningrad pocket is permanently sealed and eliminated....... Must be near 3 million already, probably 400k in that pocket alone....

Chaos, I don't think the SHC is easy to play, I actually think you have to be pretty skilled with them to avoid getting crushed against a skilled German player. Of course, I think both sides have their own unique challenges and limitations which is why the game is so interesting to play. The two sides are just polar opposites of each other and really require different mentality and skill set to play well....

maatp, Callistrid is playing in fine style but TDV is giving him little opposition. Never, ever should the Soviets allow a major encirclement west of the Volkov in AGN. I haven't seen such an egregious blunder in the last 2 dozen or so AAR's. TDV, IMO, is giving a fine lesson on how not to play the Soviet's in each major German army sector.

I won the second match. The soviets surrender, after Leningrad fall, and the northern front where encircled, and beat down under the numbers of german army, including manpower, artillery and perhaps tanks.

congrats on game #2

Great job !!!

I can stop you, would like to wait for .05 tho..

Ex AAR

I need to rest a little bit. Playing with germans need 2-3x more time then with russians. And I really hate the first turn moves