Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Dutchie999

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

You either use ASW assets at choke points or near assets that need protection, just having them search big swatches of water at random is just stupid.

If you are protecting your own coasts and you can only catch nuclear subs at choke points why do you need a P-8? Permanent sonobuoys transmitting to a listening post on shore is probably far cheaper and a lot safer since big and slow planes are a very easy target. And will probably be the first to be shot down in a preemptive strike.

How do those cheaper, safer listening posts actually localize and kill enemy subs the detect? And what's shooting down your P-8s in a preemptive strike? They are only operated by the US and India, neither of which are particularly susceptible to sudden surprise (non-nuclear) attacks on airbases housing naval patrol squadrons in this day and age.

You guys are also assuming that passive sonar is the way they're searching. There's also multistatic active sonobuoys like EER, IEER, and MAC.

http://breakingdefense.com/2012/10/navy ... -barf-bag/

In other words, it's a sonobuoy arm race.

The Baloogan's MAD drone however, isn't a bad idea. Aided with P-8 or any other high-capacity ASW planes's sonobuoy drop-bys, the drone can quickly find the sonar-triangulated goblin, and sustainably monitoring its activity with MAD broom or dip-sonar. Since MAD can pinpoint the submerged metal accurately, the datalink of ASW monitor will becomes much easier and advance than ever since.

The drone for low, while plane for high. Why not?

ORIGINAL: Primarchx

ORIGINAL: Dutchie999

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

You either use ASW assets at choke points or near assets that need protection, just having them search big swatches of water at random is just stupid.

If you are protecting your own coasts and you can only catch nuclear subs at choke points why do you need a P-8? Permanent sonobuoys transmitting to a listening post on shore is probably far cheaper and a lot safer since big and slow planes are a very easy target. And will probably be the first to be shot down in a preemptive strike.

How do those cheaper, safer listening posts actually localize and kill enemy subs the detect? And what's shooting down your P-8s in a preemptive strike? They are only operated by the US and India, neither of which are particularly susceptible to sudden surprise (non-nuclear) attacks on airbases housing naval patrol squadrons in this day and age.

Good point I forgot to mention that. I was thinking along the lines of a long range RUM-139 from a shore VLS installation. And I am merely talking hypothetically now. Playing devils advocate a bit [:D].

If you are protecting your own coasts and you can only catch nuclear subs at choke points why do you need a P-8? Permanent sonobuoys transmitting to a listening post on shore is probably far cheaper and a lot safer since big and slow planes are a very easy target. And will probably be the first to be shot down in a preemptive strike.

Because you're not just protecting your own coasts and only intending to catch nuclear submarines at choke points. MPAs might also be sent to support groups of ships all over the world. You might assign one to a convoy or SAG, or else use them to protect an aircraft carrier or amphibious ready group. Since those things move, the thing that protects them from submarines needs to move too.

You're right, MPA a vulnerable to fighters, though. They're just like AWACs and ELINT aircraft. That's why when you design your MPA screen, you need to make sure that it's far enough behind your fighters and/or SAMs that you don't have to run away or risk being shot down very often. If you do have to run away, you want to make sure that you have enough warning that you can escape successfully.

Most of your convoys, SAGs, CSGs and whatnot are going to have on board helos to provide close ASW coverage. MPA's can scout out the route ahead and sanitize the area of transit. It's still just little chunks of ocean you need to scan at any given time. Now for invading a hostile coast, where enemy aircraft may be a problem, you had best prey your own fighters or SAMs are up to the task of making the airspace safe for ASW assets to operate in. This is where SSKs will be right in their element.

I liked the idea of a number of P-8s supporting an operational CSG, able to refuel a carrier air wing with hose and drogue pods.This would be immensely helpful for the CSG ASW mission.

As a matter of fact, could this hypothetical loadout be added to the DB? Ive been wanting to test this capability, and am too tired, busy, and lazy to use editor add the capability by editing with mounts and sensors. Cmon. I rarely ask for anything unless it's for a good reason. [:D]

The problem with this, is that if you're going to send a P-8 to operate as a tanker, you might as well send a KC-135 and do the job better. A P-8 giving up its gas as a tanker won't be able to operate effectively as an MPA because giving up gas takes away from it's on station time and leads to gapped stations.

ORIGINAL: NakedWeasel

I liked the idea of a number of P-8s supporting an operational CSG, able to refuel a carrier air wing with hose and drogue pods.This would be immensely helpful for the CSG ASW mission.

As a matter of fact, could this hypothetical loadout be added to the DB? Ive been wanting to test this capability, and am too tired, busy, and lazy to use editor add the capability by editing with mounts and sensors. Cmon. I rarely ask for anything unless it's for a good reason. [:D]

think tank here? [8D][:D]

It's my job.

think tank here? [8D][:D]

As I stated, this was a concept that had been originally planned for the P-8. It wasn't my idea. But, the idea isn't all bad, either. The Poseidon doesn't spend all its time aloft looking for subs. And it could certainly refuel aircraft from Benson tanks without hurting its range.

ORIGINAL: SeaQueen

It's my job.

think tank here? [8D][:D]

Really? Can I ask you what you specifically do?

I make computer models and analyze their results.

ORIGINAL: Dutchie999

Really? Can I ask you what you specifically do?

ORIGINAL: SeaQueen

I make computer models and analyze their results.

Models? You mean RCS signature or something like that?

(Remind me the ultra-famous debate when PAK-FA and J-20 are revealed and having over half a decade arguing their actual stealthiness).

I typically haven't focused so much on engineering level modeling like that, no. Although I have done some underwater acoustics. I actually really love studying underwater acoustics because I can make use of my physics background most directly and learn about oceanography. Usually, in the past I've been more interested in engagement level modeling and above.

ORIGINAL: Dysta

Models? You mean RCS signature or something like that?

(Remind me the ultra-famous debate when PAK-FA and J-20 are revealed and having over half a decade arguing their actual stealthiness).

Ahh, water. Totally alien in my book... I mean, the science behind the sound in water.

ORIGINAL: SeaQueen

I typically haven't focused so much on engineering level modeling like that, no. Although I have done some underwater acoustics. I actually really love studying underwater acoustics because I can make use of my physics background most directly and learn about oceanography. Usually, in the past I've been more interested in engagement level modeling and above.

I went from a physics/atmospheric science degree into sonar and underwater acoustics. I've got 5 years experience of operating and analysing the returns from high frequency sonars in chambers, pipes, docks and shallow water. Learnt to 'think like a sonar pulse' [:D].

ORIGINAL: SeaQueen

It's my job.

think tank here? [8D][:D]

yeah and fascinating to see you guys elaborate

So to get back on topic. The US has plans to acquire 122 P-8 Poseidon's. Maybe a weird question. But what are these planes going to do during peace time besides training?

The same things they use P-3s for now?

ORIGINAL: Dutchie999
So to get back on topic. The US has plans to acquire 122 P-8 Poseidon's. Maybe a weird question. But what are these planes going to do during peace time besides training?

I used to use a lot of numerical models and explain their results. It was neat figuring out the puzzle of what sort of oceanographic phenomena mattered, how much they mattered, and why. These days I do other sorts of modeling, but that kind of thing was my favorite.

I went from a physics/atmospheric science degree into sonar and underwater acoustics. I've got 5 years experience of operating and analysing the returns from high frequency sonars in chambers, pipes, docks and shallow water. Learnt to 'think like a sonar pulse' .