Matrix Games Forums

about 500 miles (about 800km-400km to go and 400km to return-it

Combat radius refers to the distance from an airbase that a warplane can reach, patrol there for a set amount of time and return to base with minimal fuel left, thus completing a combat mission.
For a given aircraft, its combat radius varies according to whether or not it carries external drop tanks, the level (altitude) of the combat mission, and the amount and weight of ordnance it is carrying:



Combat radius of Spitfire MK1 425 mi (680 km) on internal fuel (With a Merlin Engine)

So the actual miles travelled are 850 miles round trip plus the miles taken up in patrolling so the current four hex range for a bf109 and a mk1 Spitfire are spot on, if you were feeling generous you could even add a hex and make it 5 hexes.


The definition of Combat Radius is taken from wiki as are the Mk 1 internal fuel radius figures.

If operational range is combat radius, them your recon Spitifires would have the same range of an Emily (H8K2 2000+2000miles). There is no way for this to happen. Your operational range would be also bigger than ferry range, which makes no sense.Take a look at real operational ranges in WW2. The Zero is rated as 3000km, but, in Guadalcanal, at 1100km from Rabaul they were at their limit, and a Sitifire has a much, much shorter range. I will place, latter, a table from a book I looked yesterday. Even a P-51 with external fuel will have an effective combat radius of 750miles. For a Spitifire it could be as low as 150miles depending on ordnance carried. Also take a look on the statistics of combat radius of WiTP AE and you will see values close to that I´m mentioning. In the wikipedia, the 415 miles is quoted as operational range, not combat radius.
Anyway, I placed interception range on 0.7 and interception chance on 100% at both minimum and maximum range, it´s the best compromise solution I looked at. I sent the file to ernie. Your short range fighters will have 2 hexes for interception. The range of a Spitifire for escort will be 3 hexes. The Bf-109F will have the range reduced to 4.

Btw, I would suggest another house rule for this game, if we get 7 players, what about if we allowed the objectives to be chosen by random (simply by not choosing them). It would allow for a much more complex game with different possibilities for alliances and a lot of backstabing....

the 415 miles is quoted as operational range, not combat radius.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Spitfire

Quite clearly states Combat Radius

And oddly 2000 miles was a distance I have read for a Spitfire rigged for recon it is obviously a seldom if ever used operational parameter, as I am sure there would be no need to cover that distance, though the coast of Norway would be a prime target for such a single seater recon. And the continent a dangerous place for a unarmed plane full of fuel.

The wikipedia is not always a reliable source, they make confusions, if you look at the article on Spitifire versions, the same value is quoted as "operational range", If you look at the F6F stats, the combat radius is 1500 km and the ferry range is 2400, which doesn´t make any sense. As for the recon Spitifire, I´m just mentioning that the 200miles value cannot be radius, because it would give a total range of 4000 miles (6400 km, which is 1,6 times the range of a PBY and bigger than the range of an Emiliy, a huge 4 engine patrol flying boat that could fly for 24h in a row). I used rely on multiple sources to define range and also use the WiTP/AE and other Gary Grigsby´s games values, since they were made by nerds who did extensive research.

At the end of the day of course its up to you I just think 1 hex ranges for air cover in this game is fairly impractical with only major towns to start with having airbases, even though we know that every single hex would have some form of airbase, private commercial military or just a flat field, so you only have limited airbases and the need for substantial quantities of engineers to build a airbase assuming they have enough EP,
so keeping up with armoured spear heads that may move two or three hexes in a turn taking them beyond air cover when of course we know at the operational level the Germans and other powers were quite capable of keeping air protection over the German Army regardless of the movement rates and as we have discussed huge quantities of Aircraft can be inaccurately and erroneously lost to enemy counter attacks. If the mechanisms of air combat were portrayed accurately in the game I would say by all means be exact with historical air ranges but they are not.

the Soviets have been very passive for at least 9 months on the eastern front and have paid for this passivity

As I said my appreciation has been based on multiple games. If by passive you mean "not offensive, not attacking" I can assure you I have deep experience with the pain of attacking both German, and Japanese (G20) troops with Soviet forces. Each and every time the Soviets attack any fairly powerful hex the Red Army losses are horrendous, Axis losses tiny. Please believe me I would attack more if I could. I think other players, Twotribes and Larry come to mind, may speak to the experience. If it is desired I can reopen old turns and do demonstration attacks to show what I mean.

We need many more games to access these issues. We need more players. As this is an opponents wanted topic I issue a call for participants. We need players, but there is a big bar to entry. We need committed players, willing to play for months, and with at a pace which is nearly as much work as fun! However we offer a game/scenario that gives a real feel for the events simulated.

Chuck

True enough you must pick your targets and time them well but if you don't get some success early its hard to get traction.



2nd point Amen to that

I can assure you I have deep experience with the pain of attacking both German, and Japanese

I have attacked both German and Japanese forces with Soviet forces I have noticed, a marginal difference commensurate with the 15% quality bonus these countries enjoy, but it did not end well for the Japanese or Germans, certainly the quality bonus is factor, but just one of many.

ORIGINAL: ironduke1955

At the end of the day of course its up to you I just think 1 hex ranges for air cover in this game is fairly impractical with only major towns to start with having airbases, even though we know that every single hex would have some form of airbase, private commercial military or just a flat field, so you only have limited airbases and the need for substantial quantities of engineers to build a airbase assuming they have enough EP,
so keeping up with armoured spear heads that may move two or three hexes in a turn taking them beyond air cover when of course we know at the operational level the Germans and other powers were quite capable of keeping air protection over the German Army regardless of the movement rates and as we have discussed huge quantities of Aircraft can be inaccurately and erroneously lost to enemy counter attacks. If the mechanisms of air combat were portrayed accurately in the game I would say by all means be exact with historical air ranges but they are not.

We will have a minimum of 2 hexes for aircover, I think it´s a good compromise, but I´m opened to changes, and will do more research on aircraft ranges. On air losses to land attacks on airbases, I agree completely with you but there´s nothing we can do. Maybe Vic could change the rules to have the same effects of TOAW (airbases are evacuated and aircraft flies automatically to another airbase in range, when airfields are taken).

In my experience the German gains to MUCH experience from failed attacks by stronger soviet forces that simply die and gain almost no experience.

version 2.21v1 is ready and will be uploaded to the dropbox folder we will set.
It has two changes compared with 2.21v
1-Yak-9T item was giving Fighter Bomber II: Fixed
2-Increased interception range from 0.5 to 0.7, it will give two hex range even for short range fighters.

Should we have a 7th player?
What do you think about my suggestion to have the objectives set by random?

I hope for a 7th player. But will just be glad to play. How does random victory objectives work?

We simply don´t choose objectives in turn 1.
Of course it´s a gentlemen agreement
If we do it, then computer randomizes the objectives
Sometimes I do it

May it be possible to do the following.

Victory for any country is to control 3 capitals of any Major powers.

to invade a minor power is 5% global disapproval to Invade a Major 10% Global disapproval.

to politically influence a minor nation bordering a another major power to join your nation 5% Global disapproval.

A country that reaches 20% Global disapproval can be declared war on with no penalty to the attacking nation.

If you are allied to a nation that reaches 20% disapproval then you will also have a global disapproval rating matching the worst of either yours or your ally.

If you declare war on one nation that has lower than 20% Global disapproval and they have a ally or allies also with lower than 20% disapproval, Global disapproval rating penalty will still only be 10%

Players will have to keep track of their Global disapproval rating and you can be sure the other players will.

Not totally serious about this but it mirrors (Loosely) a similar system I was looking at for HOI IV with the Germans Japanese or in fact any major power can push themselves into being persona non grata.

Yeah I think it is doable... Give me a week or three and no other projects I could make it part of the code, pretty bug free i think...

But I think you want to play now, right? (And I am not feeling too well at the moment either, so, it probably will be delayed until i do.)

Hey, haven't watched this for a couple days. Looks like we have a game. As a newbie for GD 1938, where do I start learning?

The idea of a victory for any country who controls 3 capitals of major powers seems ok to me. Not sure about disaproval, it´s useful when you have AI players, like in Paradox games, but it won´t help in a human player only game. Als there is a potential trouble because countries of a coalition can "give" their capitals to another player in order to achieve victory (of course it should be forbidden by a house rule).
For the current game, I´m ready, I would like to play Japan.
Still would like to have random victory conditions.

If Bombur is Japan then I would like Germany, and would offer Italy to Baloo777. The old Allies become the new Axis. Would this work?

Chuck