Matrix Games Forums

Some more fixes and tweaks.
Edit: New post, new link

Some more fixes and tweaks. Joining the Nordic fantastically fabricated fairytale fleet of fabulously fictional size at the UK port is some Dutch cruisers with new art. So for those people that make mods a bit more based in reality this might be of interest.

Three real light cruiser classes:
Vickers design 767, class named "Utrecht" in the scenario - Post WW1 cruiser design for the Dutch, which supposedly was similar to the British WW1 cruisers. I don't have a lot of info on it, art is based on the WitP art for Birmingham. Had 5x2 150 mm guns (presumably in shielded mounts and not full turrets), the armor values I've used are made up as I got no data on it. Art number 3524 along with one that lands three twin guns for more AA at 3526.
Vickers design 1002, named "Holland" in the scenario - A precursor to De Ruyter? Has 3x2 150 mm guns but unlike De Ruyter it includes some heavier AA in the form of 2x2 102 mm guns. As with the 767 the armor values I've used are just guesses. Art number 3527.
Eendracht/(De Zeven Provinciën/De Ruyter) - In the original form rather than how they looked when completed post-war. Art number 3542.

Two fantasy cruiser classes:
Seaplane carrier based on a Shipbucket design, named "Alkmaaar" in the scenario - About the size of De Ruyter, http://www.shipbucket.com/forums/viewto ... f=14&t=335 is a link to the Shipbucket thread. I've modified it slightly though compared to what's seen in the thread. Art number 3510.
Heavy cruiser that I made up, named "Koningin Emma" in the scenario - A large cruiser of almost 13000 std tons with 4x2 210 mm guns, 6x2 102 mm AA and armored along the lines of a Mogami except including some actual turret armor. Art number 3515.

Edit: Download link removed, check page 2 instead.

That's a lot of Dutch. Nice art work also. What are your plans for the mod? What's the story?

There's no story and at the moment the mod is little more than an art and ship stats repository. Technically I have an idea for a (fantasy) mod, but the ambition level of it is way beyond anything I know I can realistically hope to finish so there's little reason to say much more about it. I might try to throw together something less ambitious that's actually playable later though, but it wouldn't have much of story behind it. It would simply involve adding assets, mainly in terms of ships, to both sides. German, Italian and maybe some Japanese ships to the IJN side and Dutch, French and "Nordic" ships to the Allied side. While it is realistic I'm not all that fond of adding USN ships, they already have enough . I want to see something new when playing!

As it is at the moment I simply hope someone has some use of something in what I release. Your mod for example has Eendracht in it, so here you get ship art for it. So the art is available to use for whoever wants it for a WitP scenario - even for other ships than I made it for. Otherwise you could e.g. throw the ships into an Andy Mac Ironman scenario if you want to give the AI even more cannon fodder to use against you, there's not even any reason the "Nordic" ships would even have to be on the allied side you could give it to the Japanese side. I would actually love to see Andy make use of it to do a custom Ironman version of it that would use them, but that's not really something I could ask of him.

Thanks for the letting me use any of your art. I am going thru it. My Mod has went out the plausible window. I am now trying to redo my story while adding never where or cool what if ships. I kinda agree with not adding any US ships unless they were never made ships. I have added some German, Italian ships and might add more. Just thinking how or what will catch my eye. But I like your work.

We have this two masted schooner. We are looking for
some sort of square rigged bark or even schooner.

I tried my hand at the Fokker G.Ia and D.XXIII. I won't claim to know how the DBB team arrived at the aircraft values, but I included an attempt at making stats for them to fit DBB. But hey, if you use them then you can point your finger at me if someone says they aren't even close to correct .

NOTE! I didn't make the side art, I just resized it for WitP.

Fokker G.Ia


Max speed: 295
Cruise speed: 234
Endurance: 240
Manuever bands: 25, 23, 20, 14, 3
Climb: 2650
Max alt: 30020
Durability: 32
Armor: 1
Max load: 880
Service rating: 3 (10-20 days)
Crew: 2

Range max: 815
Range extended: 620
Range normal: 500

Armament:
8x light MG (e.g. .303, 7.9mm or whatever you got in your mod) - Centre-line
1x light MG - Top Rear
1x 300 kg GP Bomb - Internal (normal range)
1x 100 kg GP Bomb - Internal (extended range)

This would actually be a neat addition to the Dutch forces in the early game, with its 7 hex normal range. Not the greatest fighter due to the low speed, but it'd allow you to cover more ground in the DEI and would be dangerous against unescorted bombers with its heavy centreline armament.


Fokker D.XXIII


Max speed: 326
Cruise speed: 280
Endurance: 120
Manuever bands: 25, 24, 23, 16, 8
Climb: 2850
Max alt: 29500
Durability: 28
Armor: 1
Max load: 0
Service rating: 3 (10-20 days)
Crew: 1

Range max: 450
Range extended: 345
Range normal: 275

Armament:
2x light MG (e.g. .303, 7.9mm) - Centre-line
2x heavy MG (e.g. .50, 13.2mm) - Front

Nothing to write home about, compared to the Dutch B-339D it's about as fast and has much shorter range. At least it has armor though coupled with slightly better climb rate and manuever ratings.

cardas,

Very nice work!!! Love the ship and air art! Looking forward to seeing more!

TOMLABEL

Thank you very much!

I had an initial flurry of activity when I had a reasonably clear idea of what I wanted to do. With that done the pace is a whole lot slower, at this point I'm just do some now and then though when I feel like it. As an example I made the Fokker G.Ia art as it's probably one of the more reasonable "buffs" you could give the Dutch in a e.g. Reluctant Admiral, and as John 3rd is aking a new version I though he might have use of it.

-

Most of these were included in the mod I posted, only "Kruiser 1915" is new. A this is a forum it's probably nicer to see them directly rather than having to download a zip which is why I'm adding the images now, despite them not being new. It sure is a whole lot easier to distribute them as a mod though and I doubt I will start uploading the upgrade variants to imgur.

Stats in bold are things that should be correct. Everything else is guesswork, the fantasy ships obviously has fantasy stats as well. I did try to crudely sim "Koningin Emma" with SpringSharp. The class names in quotes are made up as well.

Dutch fantasy seaplane carrier "Alkmaar":

Max speed: 32
Cruise speed: 15
Endurance: 7110
Fuel: 1680
Maneuver: 45
Durability: 28
Belt armor: 50
Deck armor: 30
Tower armor: 30
Aircraft capacity: 10
Bulk cargo capacity: 900
Tonnage: 7120

Armament:
2x2 15cm/50 No.9 - Front, Armor: 100
2x2 4in/45 QF HA Mk XVI - Right
2x2 4in/45 QF HA Mk XVI - Left
2x2 40mm Bofors - Right
2x2 40mm Bofors - Left
2x1 12.7mm Browning MG - Right
2x1 12.7mm Browning MG - Left



Dutch fantasy heavy cruiser "Koningin Emma":

Max speed: 31
Cruise speed: 15
Endurance: 6130
Fuel: 2050
Maneuver: 34
Durability: 51
Belt armor: 140
Deck armor: 60
Tower armor: 180
Aircraft capacity: 2
Tonnage: 12841

Armament:
2x2 21cm/50 No.3 - Front, Armor: 180
2x2 21cm/50 No.3 - Rear, Armor: 180
3x2 4in/45 QF HA Mk XVI - Right
3x2 4in/45 QF HA Mk XVI - Left
1x2 40mm Bofors - Front
2x2 40mm Bofors - Right
2x2 40mm Bofors - Left
1x2 40mm Bofors - Rear
4x2 12.7mm Browning MG - Right
4x2 12.7mm Browning MG - Left



Dutch pre-Java design (Kruiser 1915) "Hoorn":

Max speed: 30
Cruise speed: 15
Endurance: 4830
Fuel: 1170
Maneuver: 46
Durability: 22
Belt armor: 75
Deck armor: 25
Tower armor: 100
Aircraft capacity: 0
Tonnage: 5540

Armament:
1x1 15cm/50 No.6 - Front, Armor: 100
4x1 15cm/50 No.6 - Right, Armor: 100
4x1 15cm/50 No.6 - Left, Armor: 100
1x1 15cm/50 No.6 - Rear, Armor: 100
2x2 40mm Bofors - Right
2x2 40mm Bofors - Left
2x1 12.7mm Browning MG - Right
2x2 12.7mm Browning MG - Left

Notes:
Max speed: Considering the length of the ship and the boiler space used 30 knots seems a reasonable guess.
Belt armor: Beam without armor: 15.00 m, with armor: 15.23 m -> 230 mm armor total -> 115 mm per side. Then remember that there's probably a wooden backing plate included that's ~30-40mm -> 75 mm actual armor plate. The belt armor isn't as high as on Java which is probably why it can get away with having the same value on a lighter ship.
Deck armor: Probably same as Java?
Tonnage: 6170 (metric?) ton at normal(? maybe) displacement.
40 mm Bofors: Originally 75 mm/55 guns, this is a fictional upgrade to replace them with twin Bofors guns somewhat similar to what Java did.


Dutch 1920 design (Vickers design 767) "Utrecht":

Max speed: 29
Cruise speed: 15
Endurance: 5060
Fuel: 1030
Maneuver: 48
Durability: 21
Belt armor: 75
Deck armor: 25
Tower armor: 75
Aircraft capacity: 0
Tonnage: 5150

Armament:
1x2 15cm/50 No.6 - Front, Armor: 100
2x2 15cm/50 No.6 - Center, Armor: 100
2x2 15cm/50 No.6 - Rear, Armor: 100
1x1 75mm - Right
1x1 75mm - Left
2x1 2pdr HA Mk VIII - Right
2x1 2pdr HA Mk VIII - Left
2x1 12.7mm Browning MG - Right
2x2 12.7mm Browning MG - Left
2x3 53.3cm W1 Torpedo - Right
2x3 53.3cm W1 Torpedo - Left

Notes:
Might be based on British Cassandra (Caledon) cruiser, except with twin mounts instead of singles. Values therefore based on that ship class.
Tonnage: 5150 ton normal (or standard?) displacement


Dutch pre-De Ruyter (Vickers design 1002) "Holland":

Max speed: 32
Cruise speed: 15
Endurance: 4230
Fuel: 900
Maneuver: 47
Durability: 24
Belt armor: 50
Deck armor: 30
Tower armor: 50
Aircraft capacity: 2
Tonnage: 6000

Armament:
1x2 15cm/50 No.9 - Front, Armor: 100
2x2 15cm/50 No.9 - Rear, Armor: 100
1x2 4in/45 QF HA Mk XVI - Right
1x2 4in/45 QF HA Mk XVI - Left
2x1 2pdr HA Mk VIII - Right
2x1 2pdr HA Mk VIII - Left
2x1 12.7mm Browning MG - Right
2x2 12.7mm Browning MG - Left
2x1 DC Rack - rear

Notes:
Belt armor: Reasonable to guess armor might be along the same lines as on De Ruyter. However it might actually be more as this design only uses a single belt while De Ruyter has an external belt and then an internal bulkhead (50 mm + liquid (oil etc.) storage + 30 mm).
Tonnage: 6300 ton normal load, 6900 ton full load.


Dutch Kijkduin/Eendracht (Kruiser 1937, De Zeven Provinciën/De Ruyter(iii) original design):

Max speed: 33
Cruise speed: 15
Endurance: 6100
Fuel: 1750
Maneuver: 44
Durability: 33
Belt armor: 75
Deck armor: 30
Tower armor: 30
Aircraft capacity: 2
Tonnage: 8350

Armament:
1x3 15cm/53 No.12 - Front, Armor: 125
1x2 15cm/53 No.12 - Front, Armor: 125
1x3 15cm/53 No.12 - Rear, Armor: 125
1x2 15cm/53 No.12 - Rear, Armor: 125
1x2 40mm Bofors - Front
2x2 40mm Bofors - Right
2x2 40mm Bofors - Left
1x2 40mm Bofors - Rear
2x2 12.7mm Browning MG - Right
2x2 12.7mm Browning MG - Left
1x3 53.3cm W1 Torpedo - Right
1x3 53.3cm W1 Torpedo - Left


Notes:
Check navypedia: http://navypedia.org/ships/netherlands/ ... incien.htm - original design.
Belt armor: Just like De Ruyter this ship also has an internal bulkhead in the same way. So 75 mm external belt, liquid space, 30 mm bulkhead.
Deck armor: 20 mm first armored deck, 30 mm main armored deck.

cardas, Do you have the specs for these ships?....GP

Added stats to the post, anything that isn't bold is guesswork.

Nice work.

Just DL'd your mod....GP

Am I blind? I can't find the download file for the last batch of art work? What am I missing.

Post 22....GP

Hope you find something useful in there GP! As I have already mentioned; it's more of an art&stat repository than it's a mod at the moment. Also thanks DOCUP.

ORIGINAL: DOCUP
Am I blind? I can't find the download file for the last batch of art work? What am I missing.

Only "Kruiser 1915" was new, the rest had already been included earlier. Here's a new download link though that includes "Kruiser 1915" and "Torpedobootjager 1937":
http://www.mediafire.com/file/w2qx39stn ... enario.zip

I've yet to start including any of the aircraft art.



Dutch pre-Gerard Callenburgh (Torpedobootjager 1937) "Van Brakel"

Max speed: 36
Cruise speed: 15
Endurance: 5600
Fuel: 500
Maneuver: 69
Durability: 6
Belt armor: 0
Deck armor: 0
Tower armor: 0
Aircraft capacity: 0 (1 on a platform just like on the Admiralen-class, so probably not valid ingame)
Tonnage: 1540

Armament:
1x2 12cm/45 No.8 - Front
1x1 12cm/45 No.8 - Center
1x2 12cm/45 No.8 - Rear
1x2 40mm Bofors AA - Front
1x2 40mm Bofors AA - Rear
1x2 12.7mm Browning MG - Right
1x2 12.7mm Browning MG - Left
2x3 53.3cm W1 Torpedo - Center
1x1 DC Thrower - right
1x1 DC Thrower - left
2x1 DC Rack - rear

Notes:
Per the plans it has 2 extra torpedos. On the other hand some of the Admiralen-class destroyers seems to have had room for 4 extra torpedoes yet they don't get any extra reloads in the unmodded game. Furthermore it might very well be that even if they could carry reload that the Admiralen-class ships never did so.
No DC rack actually shown, but that's probably an easy change once war begins. Either way ASW weapons outfits are more or a balance question than a question as to what a ship was really outfitted with due to how the ASW combat routine works.
Just like the Admiralen-class destroyers this ship was to be outfitted to carry mines. Usually not modelled on destroyers in WitP:AE though as mine warfare overall is somewhat lacking.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/kj3g4t0au ... enario.zip

I updated three of the fantasy cruisers that I weren't entirely happy with. Nothing major overall.





Also just as a curiosity for myself I made an image with a timeline and a picture of all the cruiser classes in the game. They are sorted by when the first ship of their class was laid down (thumbnailed, click for bigger version).


The ship at 1903 is more or less a copy of the real Swedish Fylgia, which was still active during WW2. Though Sweden was of course neutral so it never saw combat. The big gap between it and the next real ship, the Australian Adelaide, sure shows its age. Yet despite this it still wasn't the oldest active combat ship around at that time.

This is cool stuff. Keep up the good work[:)]....GP

Thank you GP, though I seem to just want to tweak things here and there at the moment. I should really get on making the smaller Dutch ships some day.

Looking at that cruiser chart again I note that I actually forgot the Soviets. Should be at 1935 if you consider them to be part of the Kirov-class cruisers.


Anyway only a minor tweak done. I wasn't entirely happy with yet another of the cruisers. There wasn't really anything wrong with the art per say, but for whatever reason I had ended up making a 3x3 setup on the turrets while I would have preferred a 4x2. I wasn't satisfied with the bridge either, so I ended up trying to fix that as well.
Before, 3x3 version

After, 4x2 version:

The bridge is still a bit odd but it will have to do.

Well done. Just downloaded and adding several Dutch to my Mods. THANKS!