Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

ORIGINAL: Tesuji

Thesis: Replayability is *THE* criterion of a classic.

Question: What is needed for a Computer Wargame to be extremely replayable?

Lots of content = many scenarios and campaigns
Some randomization = dynamic campaigns and scenario generator
Easy to make user content = map & scenario editors, new units & orders of battle
Good gameplay

What games fill those criterias? At least every game in Steel Panthers series [8D]

I agree with Matti but would add PBEM/'Net play and several levels of difficulty.

ORIGINAL: Bismarck
...several levels of difficulty.

Ideally many levels of difficulty, and the upper ones having names like "mean", "painful", "cruel", "destructive" and "devastating" and they should be just that.

ORIGINAL: Tesuji

Imagine an otherwise excellent game that has only one scenario (maybe a long one), only one difficulty level and little or no randomness.

One game review about TOAW1 said that Korea scenario alone (comes with the demo) would qualify for a full priced game on its own right. Speaking about which, how many scenarios come with Korsun Pocket & sequels?

Once you have won it there is no point in replaying. Like with most RPGs.

Why the Hell not? One scenario with set units can be played 2nd time with the other side. Likewise many RPGs have number of character classes and thus given RPG can be played through multiple times with different characters/classes for different kind of experience.

For sake of clarification: RPG = Role-Playing Game

+1 to Matti and Tesjui.

ORIGINAL: Orm

Like with most RPGs.

Yet some MMORPG games gets the player to do the same thing again, and again, and many times more.

Like RIFT does day to day and weeklies. It's the same ole boring mess but I can't stop. I want my new toy at the end of all the same ole same ole. At least it is different.

Immersion, be able to still throw up a surprise after hours of play, create tension and excitement again even after hours of play (game like football manager can do this..watching the match biting your nails can never get boring) an editor and also great mod support.

Modders, please don´t kill me now. [:)] I know moddability is a #1 priority for many and I do understand and respect that. But: I don´t think it qualifies as a *necessary* condition for replayability. I for one like to play with all factory settings, and I want my games to be replayable without the *need* to mod them.

Add to this that moddability is sometimes used as an excuse for bad balance and other unpleasantries in the game as delivered.

Random scenario generator - e.g.:

Combat Mission
Civilization
Sid Meier's Gettysburg
Advanced Tactics
John Tiller Campaign Series

I would agree. Some sort of scenario generator is a must for me.

Scenarios shouldn´t be entirely random, though.

Ideally you get a random map *AND* a lot of choices to make for the setup (or leave to randomness if you wish).

Examples:
-CivIII+ -choose your Nation, mapscript, map size, # of opponents etc. etc.
-Master of Magic -best of all in this regard; choose magic books of one or more colours, special abilities, starting spells, starting race. Literally 1000s of possibilities, practically all are playable and need different tactics.
-Steel Panthers III/SPWAW -choose nationality, opponent, year/month, engagement type, force size, then buy your force. Buying system isn´t perfect, though. AI buys should be more varied and less predictable, player otoh should be somewhat limited to a halfway plausible force composition. (Usually many options are good, but sometimes they should be pruned to keep the game somewhat historical and, most importantly, balanced.)

ORIGINAL: Zap

Surprised, I did not see it mentioned in the responses so far. Live opponent or Pbem opponent. Add that to the mix of reasons a game is replayable.

agree

Pbem or a very challenging computer opponent or both, which is rare.

Ideally, the publisher would tell us honestly on which of the two the game is focused.

One thing that hasn´t been much discussed, yet: THEME.

(Perhaps everybody thought this too obvious to mention.)

I think theme is what separates a Wargame from an abstract Strategy Game.

If graphics and game flow do not broadly fit the thematic conception, the game will not "feel right" and be immersive.

Too many are confusing chrome with theme, though, and insist on adding tons of unnecessary, redundant detail that doesn´t really add anything to gameplay.

So what´s the difference, you ask? As an example, take any WWII tactical game: If artillery can kill tanks too easily, this is counter-thematic and should be considered a bug that must be squashed. Otoh, if the game doesn´t include some rare tanks or other equipment that didn´t often play a role in historic battles, I couldn´t care less. That´s just chrome, and the obsession with OOB completeness is something I don´t share. I would prefer designers to be obsessed with balance and challenge. [8D]

I've often considered what one game I would chose if stranded on a deserted island with no internet connection. I'd say that Victor has gone pretty far in making Advanced Tactics replayable with many wars represented. TOAW is great, but I would get bored of the game mechanics. WitE, I would actually be able to learn the game and edit it forever. But the AI might let me down.

With all the time in the world, I wouldn't mind all the clicking in TotH that annoys me a bit now. Flashpoint is a contender; Command Ops2 even closer. But in the end, I would go with CMANO. Endless replayability and would keep my hopes up of being rescued by a chopper or a fast boat.

TOAW.. WitE.. TotH.. CMANO.. [&:][&:][&:]

why the hell do you all use that mysterious acronyms instead of the full wargames/strategy games names.. ???????

ORIGINAL: Hattori Hanzo

TOAW.. WitE.. TotH.. CMANO.. [&:][&:][&:]

why the hell do you all use that mysterious acronyms instead of the full wargames/strategy games names.. ???????

I know what you mean...it drives me crazy!

It is always proper to spell something out the first time that it is mentioned, then afterwards you can use only the letters. Might be a bit tedious, but at least that way people will know what is being talked about. Thanks !

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

It is always proper to spell something out the first time that it is mentioned, then afterwards you can use only the letters. Might be a bit tedious, but at least that way people will know what is being talked about. Thanks !

I agree!

A forum I used to frequent required that a thread about a game have the name of the game in the title of the thread. I believe that is the most logical thing to do. By doing so it helped familiarize the forum members with the acronyms for many popular games. It also simplified searching for information about a game on the forum.

I stand corrected. I use AP style in my real job, so why not here, right?

ORIGINAL: rosseau

I stand corrected. I use AP style in my real job, so why not here, right?

in my opinion because many users do not know the meaning of that game-names abbreviations and so they cannot correctly understand the post.

after some research on the web I can suppose that TOAW stand for "The Operational Art of War".

still I do not know wich games are: WitE, TotH and CMANO [&:][&:][&:] [8|]


ps: consider also that many users on this forum are not "english-language" natives and that for them to undestand the correct meaning of an acronym can be very difficult.

in fact this is my case.. [:(]

ORIGINAL: Hattori Hanzo

ORIGINAL: rosseau

I stand corrected. I use AP style in my real job, so why not here, right?

in my opinion because many users do not know the meaning of that game-names abbreviations and so they cannot correctly understand the post.

after some research on the web I can suppose that TOAW stand for "The Operational Art of War".

still I do not know wich games are: WitE, TotH and CMANO [&:][&:][&:] [8|]


ps: consider also that many users on this forum are not "english-language" natives and that for them to undestand the correct meaning of an acronym can be very difficult.

in fact this is my case.. [:(]

I would agree that it would be nice if posters spelled those game names out in most cases, but it shouldn't be very hard to find the names just by scrolling down the list of forums on this site. A little effort yields the names:

WitE: Gary Grigsby's War in the East
TotH: Tigers on the Hunt (I didn't know this one till I checked for it)
CMANO: Command: Modern Air / Naval Operations