Matrix Games Forums

In MWIF the oil rule it isn't time consuming at all. The system makes your calculations for you...

But on the board, you are quite right that it is a time consuming rule.

And Carpet Bombing would be on number 4 on my list.

I have a problem with China in MWIF. I had played with different rules combinations but I can´t get a well balanced game. When I play without land combat weakness China is overpowered (in two games, China conquered manchuria, korea, indochina...)Japan was massacred. With land weakness, four games, Japan conquered China too easily always with the same strategy (first destroy the comunist, very easy, and after, the nationalist, easy). Combining land weakness and additional cities is the best for balance, in my experience, but if Japan is determined to finish china is very difficult save China. So my conclusión is that something in game design are not ok but a I don´t know how could be fixed.

About 2d10 chart, when you use it a couple of times it is very difficult to get back to the 1d10. But I must say that if you use 2d10 using divisons is mandatory.

Oil, in boardgame I never use it but in MWIF I allways use it, the game is more realistic and exciting from strategic point of view.

I think, that since most need divisions to play with the 2d10 table, shows that the 2d10 is flawed.

ORIGINAL: Orm

I think, that since most need divisions to play with the 2d10 table, shows that the 2d10 is flawed.

I prefer 2d10 because :

1)you have more control of losses
2)favor ground strikes versus ground support
3)favor grouping panzers[;)]

and obviously reduces the luck factor favouring good strategies

If you don´t plan ahead you are right, if not you have to waste a lot of time deciding what to use that needs oil (especially the axis), how many points do you want to save etc... Discarding that rule make things easy and faster.

When playing with the additional Chinese cities the US entry value for capturing the cities are modified. US Entry Action die rolls for capturing Chinese cities are also affected. Instead of the normal 1 to 4 (i.e., 40%) it is 1 to 2 + the number of factories in the hex. This means that a city without a factory has a 20% chance of causing a US Entry chit to be drawn, while Sian (with 1 factory) has a 30% chance and Chungking (with 2 factories) has a 40% chance.

But my analysis is this:

At game start there are originally 9 cities controlled by the Chinese that the Japanese can take. 25 new cities have been added (10 of which the Japanese start the game with). So the Japanese are looking at the possibility of taking 15 more cities all with rolls of 1-2 for US entry (30 points?).

Subtract from the 30 the reduction in US entry die roll points due factory totals = 10. So there are 20 additional die roll points Japan is at risk of rolling US entry for.

I don't mind the "new" cities the Japs begin the game with under their control, but the 15 "new" cities the Chinese start the game with is way too many, should be more like 5 to keep it neutral to the board game.

My apologies if my numbers and analysis are off.

I think, that since most need divisions to play with the 2d10 table, shows that the 2d10 is flawed.

I know I never played WiF without divisions. Divisions as an optional rule...the question: "should we play with that option or not?" has never come up in my board game group (even in our very first game), or with any of the players I've played with at any con...and not because we were playing with the 2d10 as a reason. Its one of those optional rules that is not really an option to what I think is the vast majority of players (that includes 2d10).

I don't see or understand your opinion on the flaw?

Someone mentioned 3d10. Now that I would try.

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

When playing with the additional Chinese cities the US entry value for capturing the cities are modified. US Entry Action die rolls for capturing Chinese cities are also affected. Instead of the normal 1 to 4 (i.e., 40%) it is 1 to 2 + the number of factories in the hex. This means that a city without a factory has a 20% chance of causing a US Entry chit to be drawn, while Sian (with 1 factory) has a 30% chance and Chungking (with 2 factories) has a 40% chance.

But my analysis is this:

At game start there are originally 9 cities controlled by the Chinese that the Japanese can take. 25 new cities have been added (10 of which the Japanese start the game with). So the Japanese are looking at the possibility of taking 15 more cities all with rolls of 1-2 for US entry (30 points?).

Subtract from the 30 the reduction in US entry die roll points due factory totals = 10. So there are 20 additional die roll points Japan is at risk of rolling US entry for.

I don't mind the "new" cities the Japs begin the game with under their control, but the 15 "new" cities the Chinese start the game with is way too many, should be more like 5 to keep it neutral to the board game.

My apologies if my numbers and analysis are off.

It depends whether or not the Japanese decide to take all those cities from the Chinese if they go for a conquest of China.

Where in the boardgame the Japanese have to take almost all cities, in the MWIF map, they can decide to ignore certain cities, because they are to far away from the action at that time. So that compensates for this somewhat.
Also, there is a lesser chance of succes on the US entry die rolls when playing with those cities. Now, I wasn't around at the time this decision was made, but I believe that there were a lot of calculations, to see what the result of adding those extra cities was going to be to US entry. The goal her was to make the average end result for US entry in China more or less the same as in the boardgame itself.

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

When playing with the additional Chinese cities the US entry value for capturing the cities are modified. US Entry Action die rolls for capturing Chinese cities are also affected. Instead of the normal 1 to 4 (i.e., 40%) it is 1 to 2 + the number of factories in the hex. This means that a city without a factory has a 20% chance of causing a US Entry chit to be drawn, while Sian (with 1 factory) has a 30% chance and Chungking (with 2 factories) has a 40% chance.

But my analysis is this:

At game start there are originally 9 cities controlled by the Chinese that the Japanese can take. 25 new cities have been added (10 of which the Japanese start the game with). So the Japanese are looking at the possibility of taking 15 more cities all with rolls of 1-2 for US entry (30 points?).

Subtract from the 30 the reduction in US entry die roll points due factory totals = 10. So there are 20 additional die roll points Japan is at risk of rolling US entry for.

I don't mind the "new" cities the Japs begin the game with under their control, but the 15 "new" cities the Chinese start the game with is way too many, should be more like 5 to keep it neutral to the board game.

My apologies if my numbers and analysis are off.

It depends whether or not the Japanese decide to take all those cities from the Chinese if they go for a conquest of China.

Where in the boardgame the Japanese have to take almost all cities, in the MWIF map, they can decide to ignore certain cities, because they are to far away from the action at that time. So that compensates for this somewhat.
Also, there is a lesser chance of succes on the US entry die rolls when playing with those cities. Now, I wasn't around at the time this decision was made, but I believe that there were a lot of calculations, to see what the result of adding those extra cities was going to be to US entry. The goal her was to make the average end result for US entry in China more or less the same as in the boardgame itself.

Here are the added cities:

// ****************************************************************************
// Added Chinese cities:
// Ningsia, Sining, Tianshui, Yenan, Tungkwan, Nanyang, Ankang, Ichang,
// Nanchang, Chihkiang, Hengyang, Kweilin, Kaifeng, Suchow, Paoting, Soochow.
// ****************************************************************************
Ningsia := FindCity(rsNingsia); // Optional Chinese city. CC.
Sining := FindCity(rsSining); // Optional Chinese city. CC.
Tianshui := FindCity(rsTianshui); // Optional Chinese city. CC.
Tungkwan := FindCity(rsTungkwan); // Optional Chinese city. CC.
Yenan := FindCity(rsYenan); // Optional Chinese city. CC.

Nanyang := FindCity(rsNanyang); // Optional Chinese city. NC.
Ankang := FindCity(rsAnkang); // Optional Chinese city. NC.
Ichang := FindCity(rsIchang); // Optional Chinese city. NC.
Nanchang := FindCity(rsNanchang); // Optional Chinese city. NC.
Chihkiang := FindCity(rsChihkiang); // Optional Chinese city. NC.
Hengyang := FindCity(rsHengyang); // Optional Chinese city. NC.
Kweilin := FindCity(rsKweilin); // Optional Chinese city. NC.

Kaifeng := FindCity(rsKaifeng); // Optional Chinese city. Ja.
Paoting := FindCity(rsPaoting); // Optional Chinese city. Ja.
Soochow := FindCity(rsSoochow); // Optional Chinese city. Ja.
Suchow := FindCity(rsSuchow); // Optional Chinese city. Ja.

Note that Japan starts every scenario already controlling 4 of these cities. So the die rolls are only for 12 of the new ones.

The Expected Number (i.e., mean) of the number of US Entry chits drawn should be the same with or without the additional Chinese cities.

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

I agree with Viktor except on Arty units (always use), Limited Overseas Supply (always use) and In the Presence of the Enemy (always use but understand this one is really polarized in terms of different player's views).
Also would never want to use (some of these are in WiF but not MWiF):
- Railway Movement Bonus
- Hitler's War
- Food in Flames
- Japanese Command Conflict
- Convoys in Flames
- Surprised - No ZoC
- Rough Seas
- V-weapons and A-bombs
- Heavy Weapons Units
- Air Cav
- The Ukraine
- Flying Bombs
- En Route and Limited Aircraft Interception
- Intelligence
- Recruitment Limits

nailed it. [edit: almost .. add carpet bombing!]

I find it incomprehensible how people can play w/o GBA, attack weakness or combat friction.

Although I have to look into the map changes. Will there be an option for the WiF maps?

I find it incomprehensible how people can play w/o GBA, attack weakness or combat friction.

And I find it strange that people like them. [:D]

They honestly make the USSR too strong. The upgrades are too easy to get along the game, and the units are even better than SS!

I think the GBAs make a Barb42 very hard for Germany, but are needed to keep most Barb41s from being a a blow-out of Russia.

When I suffered (as URSS) a Barb 41, I was so easily crushed I don't remember any GBA obtained.

I never have played with GBA so really I don´t know if is good or bad but I can think it is not very important one because I never miss it. [;)]

And I use to play USSR!